Last Out

[Fearnone]

Had a tough call today for the last out. Here is the situation... 2 outs on the visiting team with R1 on first, throw back to first base from catcher. R1 dives back as the ball arrives, she touches the base and as the first baseman catches the ball, she falls on R1's arm. R1 pulls arm off the base and is tagged by baseman. I was BU and called R1 out. After the call R1 is lying on the ground in pain, coach says she was injured and should be safe. PU saw the injury occur but after conference we decided that no time was called. Correct ruling? Final score 4-3, home team

[Gulf Coast Blue]

If the defenders momentum carried her into the play and she did nothing deliberate to push the runners arm off the bag......I got an out. No doubt about it though......these are tough calls to make.

I would not beat myself up over it.

Joel

[mick]

Originally posted by Gulf Coast Blue
If the defenders momentum carried her into the play and she did nothing deliberate to push the runners arm off the bag......I got an out. No doubt about it though......these are tough calls to make.

I would not beat myself up over it.

Joel

Joel,
I could easily live with a safe call without time being called. Why reward the defense for clumsiness?
The ball would be "dead" in front of me, when I recognized the defenders momentum forcing the arm off, or when I recognized the injury. Easy "Safe" for me.
mick

[Gulf Coast Blue]

mick.........sometimes wrecks happen.......you got a tangle of arms/legs/bodies........

I see your point.......but he asked what I thought of HIS call and I thought it was ok........I may or may not have had the same........I wasn't there. We have the priveledge of thinking over the situation.........he didn't.......

Joel

[Just Curious]

Well Fearnone... My wife says she SAFE! I'd go safe myself.... BTW Linda also says that if F3 broke one of R1's nails, because of her clumsiness, she'd give R1 an extra base too!
Chuck

[David Van Milligen]

Only Fearnone, was there, and was correct on the call. Gulf Coast Blue, and I agree the call could be made the way Fearnone made it, not that eather of us would make the call the way Fearnone did.

[whiskers_ump]

Agree with original call, and Gulf Coast Blues
assestment. From description as posted by
fearnone no deliberate act was performed, so
it seems out appropriate. Hope player alright.

[mick]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Agree with original call, and Gulf Coast Blues
assestment. From description as posted by
fearnone no deliberate act was performed, so
it seems out appropriate. Hope player alright.

I didn't know the act had to be deliberate in ASA. I thought clumsy would also count.
mick

[IRISHMAFIA]

It doesn't, Mick.

I would not make such a call. If a defender with the ball reached for a tag, tripped and knocked a runner off the bag accidentally, you would rule the runner out if the defender made a tag? Not me.

If the runner reached the base first and did not lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
It doesn't, Mick.

I would not make such a call. If a defender with the ball reached for a tag, tripped and knocked a runner off the bag accidentally, you would rule the runner out if the defender made a tag? Not me.

Not me either. ...an easy "Safe" for me (as noted above in my first response)

If the runner reached the base first and
did not lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.


If this is what you meant to write I am lost. If you meant to write the following, then I understand and agree with that also.:

If the runner reached the base first and
did lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.

[Fearnone]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick
[QUOTE]Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
It doesn't, Mick.

I would not make such a call. If a defender with the ball reached for a tag, tripped and knocked a runner off the bag accidentally, you would rule the runner out if the defender made a tag? Not me.

Not me either. ...an easy "Safe" for me (as noted above in my first response)

If the runner reached the base first and
did not lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.


If this is what you meant to write I am lost. If you meant to write the following, then I understand and agree with that also.:

If the runner reached the base first and
did lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.

[/QUOTE
By Fearnone:
The way I saw it was the runner voluntarily pulled her arm off. She did not "yell" in pain or make any motion to attempt to call time. She just pulle dher arm off.

[mick]

Originally posted by Fearnone
By Fearnone:
The way I saw it was the runner voluntarily pulled her arm off. She did not "yell" in pain or make any motion to attempt to call time. She just pulle dher arm off. [/B]

Fearnone,
You've got F3 laying on R1.
R1 pulls arm off bag for no apparent reason.
I concede that may have been a tough call.
mick

[IRISHMAFIA]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fearnone
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
It doesn't, Mick.

I would not make such a call. If a defender with the ball reached for a tag, tripped and knocked a runner off the bag accidentally, you would rule the runner out if the defender made a tag? Not me.

Not me either. ...an easy "Safe" for me (as noted above in my first response)

If the runner reached the base first and
did not lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.


If this is what you meant to write I am lost. If you meant to write the following, then I understand and agree with that also.:

If the runner reached the base first and
did lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.

[/QUOTE
By Fearnone:
The way I saw it was the runner voluntarily pulled her arm off. She did not "yell" in pain or make any motion to attempt to call time. She just pulle dher arm off.

Nope, I'm sticking with it. You are asking the player to risk injury caused by the defender's clumsiness or be called out.

If that's your reasoning, why not just allow the defender to stomp on a runner's hand or foot until removed from the base and as long as the runner doesn't scream, she is out?

I don't think so.

[IRISHMAFIA]

If the runner reached the base first and
did not lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.


If this is what you meant to write I am lost. If you meant to write the following, then I understand and agree with that also.:

If the runner reached the base first and
did lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.

Mick,

I stated it the way I meant it. If the runner did not lose contact voluntarily, I am not calling her out. Sorry if I confused you by basically constructing the sentence in a manner which used a double-negative.

[mick]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

If the runner reached the base first and
did not lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.


If this is what you meant to write I am lost. If you meant to write the following, then I understand and agree with that also.:

If the runner reached the base first and
did lose contact voluntarily or without coercion from the defender, I am not going to rule that runner out.

Mick,

I stated it the way I meant it. If the runner did not lose contact voluntarily, I am not calling her out. Sorry if I confused you by basically constructing the sentence in a manner which used a double-negative.

I cannot read. Not enough pictures. Sorry.
Thanks.
mick