Stealing in Adult Slow Pitch Softball

[Gemini]

On ball 4 in adult slow pitch stealing, is it a dead ball like games with no stealing or can runners take off.

I believe it to be a dead ball as stated in the rule book, but we have some officials saying it is a live ball.

[Fozzie]

Originally posted by Gemini
On ball 4 in adult slow pitch stealing, is it a dead ball like games with no stealing or can runners take off.

I believe it to be a dead ball as stated in the rule book, but we have some officials saying it is a live ball.

The ball remains live until the pitcher has possesion of the ball AND all play has apparently ceased. So yes runners can take off.

I believe the original post is referring to the ASA rule that allows stealing slowpitch, at the men's levels as well as the women's open level. They can steal as long as play has not ceased and the pitcher does not have the ball. I'm picturing the example that ball 4 has been pitched, but the catcher allowed it to roll away, which means it becomes live. Of course, it still has to meet the criteria that it did not hit the plate or any area in fair territory.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Of course, it still has to meet the criteria that it did not hit the plate or any area in fair territory.

I'm sure you meant if the ball didn't hit the batter, the plate or the ground in front of the plate.

Fair territory has nothing to do with the rule

Mike,

I have to digress with you as fair territory does matter, because if it hits the ground on the sides of the plate (that is in fair territory) the ball becomes dead. You can't imagine how fast I had to call dead ball on those kinds of pitches.

[rwest]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Mike,

I have to digress with you as fair territory does matter, because if it hits the ground on the sides of the plate (that is in fair territory) the ball becomes dead. You can't imagine how fast I had to call dead ball on those kinds of pitches.

I disagree. I don't have my rule book with me, so I'm going from memory. The runner can steal when the ball crosses the front edge of the plate as long as it does not hit the batter or the plate. Since the ball hit the ground beside the plate it had to have crossed the front edge and is live. Runners can advance. Do you have a rule reference to support that the ball is dead when it hits beside the plate?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Mike,

I have to digress with you as fair territory does matter, because if it hits the ground on the sides of the plate (that is in fair territory) the ball becomes dead. You can't imagine how fast I had to call dead ball on those kinds of pitches.

Rwest is correct. The rule book specifically states the front edge of the plate, so it is very possible that a pitch land in fair territory and still remain live.

Imagine this, a pitch that is a little "short" and off to the side of the plate, that little area in "fair" territory. Do you always call that a strike, even if it never crossed the plate? Same thing for allowing the steal. My UIC got on my case over that last year when we allowed stealing in one of the men's leagues here.

[rwest]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Imagine this, a pitch that is a little "short" and off to the side of the plate, that little area in "fair" territory. Do you always call that a strike, even if it never crossed the plate? Same thing for allowing the steal. My UIC got on my case over that last year when we allowed stealing in one of the men's leagues here.

Whether the pitch would be called a strike is not relevant to the rule. What do you mean by "a little short"? Do you mean that the ball did not cross enough of the plate to be called a strike? I know some umpires require that the ball cross a certain portion of the plate before calling it a stike. Is this what you are referring to? Are you saying that if the pitch, in your estimation, did not cross enough of the plate to be called a strike, then the ball is not live? My understanding of the strike zone is that if any part of the ball crosses any part of the plate in the strike zone it is a strike, regardless of where it lands. But that is beside the point when discussing the stealing rule. Again, it has no bearing, in my opinion.





[Edited by rwest on Jun 13th, 2005 at 11:25 AM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Ref Ump Welsch
Imagine this, a pitch that is a little "short" and off to the side of the plate, that little area in "fair" territory. Do you always call that a strike, even if it never crossed the plate?

No, not if it didn't cross some part of the plate. No one has given any indication that it should be a strike or that they call it a strike. Just as legal/illegal pitch, ball/strike is irrelevant to the discussion.

Same thing for allowing the steal. My UIC got on my case over that last year when we allowed stealing in one of the men's leagues here.

Nothing I can do about your UIC except suggest s/he review 8.4.G.2 and POE #50.

I can tell you that when the stealing was first introduced in SP at the Major and Super level, the back corners were used, but that hasn't been for a few years now.

[rwest]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, not if it didn't cross some part of the plate. No one has given any indication that it should be a strike or that they call it a strike. Just as legal/illegal pitch, ball/strike is irrelevant to the discussion.

Nothing I can do about your UIC except suggest s/he review 8.4.G.2 and POE #50.

I can tell you that when the stealing was first introduced in SP at the Major and Super level, the back corners were used, but that hasn't been for a few years now.

An illegal pitch is still live for the purpose of stealing. The only time you can't steal is if the ball never crossed the front edge of the plate (i.e. is short), hits the plate or the batter. If the ball never clears 6 ft or is higher than 12 ft, the pitch is illegal but the runners can advance once it crosses the front edge of the plate as long as it doesn't hit the plate or the batter.