Obstruction

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by outathm
I know that we are supposed to decide where the runner would have ended up at the time of the obs, so please no one continue this stitch with telling me that.

Guess what?

That being said, I have been told to put up the Delayed dead ball, say 'obs.' loud enough to be heard by the closest player, and then follow the play.

I will wait until the play is done to decide where the runner will end up. If it's a bang-bang play at third and the runner is out, who am I to decide at first base that the runner has a double by hte hit?

Huh.....the umpire?

Has anyone in here ever heard of not making the call until you know what has happened?

Ever hear of doing the job the right way? You say you know how it is to be done, but blatantly show that you intend to ignore it. IMO, that is not the sign of a good umpire.

[mcrowder]

outathm, I just can't let that go. Mike said it best, but I simply can't refrain from comment after such a blatant disregard for the rules coming from an umpire. ASA has stated repeatedly that subsequent action should not alter your decision as to where the obstructed runner should end up.

Has anybody heard of it? Of course, and it's wrong. Wrong by rule, wrong by practice.

Debeau - I still want to see the rule you guys are using to justify the "NZ interpretation" on this. Seriously, you are giving defenses everywhere all the incentive in the world to obstruct on purpose.

[outathm]

This is why I post in here. I am glad to get feedback and constructive criticism. I also know anything I say now will sound like an excuse or a backtrack so I will simply say i stand corrected and a better umpire for the responses on this board.

Thank you Mike and all of you.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I believe you really need to think about this.

If you are going to "give" the obstructed runner 3B because the play was close, are you ready to call that runner out if it is by three strides?

By rule, the runner is protected to a base. Either it is 3B or 2B, it cannot be both. If 2B and the runner is put out between 2nd & 3rd, the runner is out. You cannot kill the ball and put the runner back on 2B.

That is one of the reasons you cannot wait until the end of the play to make that determination.

[debeau]

A good discussion was had by all at my meeting .
The main conclusion , after reading and re-reading the penalty of obstruction was we are doing it right but so are you .
We came to realise that it is not the umpire difference but player difference .
If a player is obstructed between 1st and second they are protected to 2nd initially .
In NZ most players will always try for the next base , they never stop .
Therefore we dont have to make that judgement as to
"that was a 3 bag hit " because the players will always attempt to make that 3rd bag and if called out near the base we will award that base .
Note : The umpires in our discussion group all umpire elite fastpitch men which is fast and aggressive .
I think this has a big bearing on how we umpire .
A question If the ball is hit to the outfield and a BR is OBS going to first , you then decide to protect them to 3rd .They go past 3rd and are tagged out at home do you call them out .
BY our "step" method we wouldnt and he would be safe

[wadeintothem]

Amazing...

[debeau]

Say same scenario .In your opinion a 3 bagger but BR is not fast .
OBS just past 1st but a good recovery and throw he is tagged out at 2nd . Obviously we would all call dead ball safe on the OBST .
My understanding is you would then award him 3rd .
But as he was tagged out at 2nd the OBST was minimal (we would judge 1 , 2,3 or 4 steps ) you have already judged a 3 bagger . But as he was tagged out going into 2nd there was no way he would have ever made 3rd even without the OBST .
A BR rounds 1st and is OBST on a hit you judge a 3 bagger but pulls a hamstring going around 2nd and stops on 2nd .
The injury made him stop not the OBST . Would you still award 3rd .
I have never seen a R obstructed that stops .
Maybe I should go back down and umpire girls under 16 or 14
to get a "feel" of the way you award OBST.
In fact I have been invited to Umpire in an Australian U16 boys national tournament in 2 weeks . I will award as you do so give me some more help and examples please .

[outathm]

I guess I just need to move to NZ LOL

[mcrowder]

BR's speed would be a factor in where I expected them to reach.

But in your exact scenario, I would give her third. It's possible my judgement at the time of OBS was bad, in hindsight, but it's also possible that something else occurred that I didn't see... OBS was minimal, but caused BR to have trouble getting up to full speed, etc.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by debeau
As suggested by mcrowder and a god suggestion I might add ...

He's good, but not THAT good!

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
That would be up to you as the umpire. The obstruction is in effect until the runner reaches the base to which you have decided to protect him/her (or THEM as Dakota would prefer )

Actually, I would prefer, "until the runner reaches one of the several bases to which the umpire may or may not have judged all and sundry runners would have reached..."