Between inning postioning of the Base Umpire.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I read and re-read the NFHS Softball Umpires Manual and could not find anything that gives the positioning of the Base Umpire between innings for a Two-Umpire Crew. The Base Umpire in baseball takes a position in short right field.

I could not find any information in the ASA or USSSA manuals either.

MTD, Sr.

[Edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on Apr 2nd, 2005 at 05:35 PM]

[azbigdawg]

I think ya missed it in BOTH...

[MA Softball Ump]

I responded on the FED Board just now. I dust off the Pitcher's plate and and bases that have been "dusted." By then it is usually time to "Play Ball" if the one minute rule is in effect. Sometimes I will trot over and talk with my partner, but never if there has been a recent close call or some controversy.

TJ

[DNTXUM P]

Stand on the lip of the grass where the dirt meets the grass about 10 feet from the right field foul line, looking towards home plate. Adjust if players coming to warm up on defense are throwing near you. This keeps you away from coaches and if they come out to talk to you, everyone knows that they are the ones that instigated the conversation.

NCAA

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by azbigdawg
I think ya missed it in BOTH...

Darrell:

With all due respect, as a Moderator on the Basketball Forum, your response to my question is the type of smart alec remark that I would expect from someone who loves to hear the sound of his own voice.

MTD, Sr.

[WestMichBlue]

Mark - go to the end of three man mechanics. Pg 73 in my 2003 NHFS Umpires Manual; pg 257 in 2005 ASA book.

NFHS - edge of outfield, in fair territory, facing infield.

ASA - 15' into outfield, fair territory, facing infield.

You will also find PU positioning there; NFHS and ASA are on opposite foul lines.

WMB

[whiskers_ump]

Mark,

In the 2005 Umpires Manual the positioning for PU and BU
are on page 71.

PU Assume a position approximately 20' from home, near the line in foul
territory and facing the infield. Take a position on the foul line that
is on the side of the field of the team going into the field.

BU Assume a position at the outfield edge. Stand in fair terriroty and
face the infield.

[NorthAlaUmp]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Mark,

In the 2005 Umpires Manual the positioning for PU and BU
are on page 71.

Whiskers, maybe in your copy, but it appears each state prints their own version of the Umpires Manual. Here in Alabama, it's on page 45.
________________________


PU Assume a position approximately 20' from home, near the line in foul territory and facing the infield. Take a position on the foul line that is on the side of the field of the team going into the field.

In Alabama, our gurus-that-be say the following:

"The plate umpire shall stand between home and third or home and first. Alternate foul lines by taking a position on the foul line that is on the side of the field where the team is coming off the field!!"

This is a change from last year where we were to stand on the foul line extended, about 10'-15' behind the plate, facing the team coming onto offense. Good idea, but it put us against the fence on many fields and some umpires could not resist carrying on conversations with fans. Also put you closer to folks arguing with you.
_____________________________

BU Assume a position at the outfield edge. Stand in fair terriroty and face the infield.

About BU, ours says: "The base umpire shall clean the pitcher's plate after the conclusion of each half inning prior to going to the outfield grass." The picture does show that it would be the RF grass.

So, even though we are all working NFHS, there still are some states that think they know better. (No claim made that this IS better, only that the powers-that-be have decided WE will do it OUR way!)

[azbigdawg]

Sorry Mark..., I AM a smartass....but I hate the sound of my voice..I was just letting you know that information IS there.... I probably should have put the page numbers in there for ya.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Darrell:

With all due respect, as a Moderator on the Basketball Forum, your response to my question is the type of smart alec remark that I would expect from someone who loves to hear the sound of his own voice.

MTD, Sr.

Mark,

With all due respect is seems Darrell may have been correct and I saw absolutely nothing "smart alec" about it.

Meanwhile, as a moderator, you should know that this isn't a baseball board, so who really cares where the BU stands in a baseball game?

And, no, that wasn't being a smart ***, but a serious question. What makes people think that citing something that is done in baseball has any bearing on softball rules or mechanics?

Different game, different rules, different field, different mechanics, different philosophies.

[wadeintothem]

Now you know the rules send you off to ponder your navel in R field or some damn place.. this is what I do - I clean bases if need be, get water (which I keep somewhere close by), stand about 1/2 between H and 1B and wait for the pitches because I clean off the pitching plate after the throw down to 2B then I go to A.

And welcome to the SB board.. they aint as bad as they seem.. or you get used to the pompousness.. one or the other. Maybe its part of being a umpire back east.. not sure. Lots know the hell outta them rules though.

[Edited by wadeintothem on Apr 2nd, 2005 at 08:28 AM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by wadeintothem
Now you know the rules send you off to ponder your navel in R field or some damn place..

Speaking ASA

I hate this mechanic. As a PU, I want to have the ability to talk to my partner between innings. As a BU, I want to have the ability to talk to my partner between innings.

A softball game evolves as it progresses. I don't care how much you cover in a pre-game, things change. I think that the ability to have a simple, quiet conversation between innings is a positive thing for a crew.

Now, when the BU comes into the PU between innings, it's a noticeable exception and can only raise questions in the minds of those who know the mechanics.

And the excuse for the mechanic is extremely week. They wanted to remove the umpire from a possibly confrontational position as the team leaves the field. Bull! An umpire's responsibilities alone places them in an adversarial position on every pitch.

Wish they would change it back.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Mark,

With all due respect is seems Darrell may have been correct and I saw absolutely nothing "smart alec" about it.

Meanwhile, as a moderator, you should know that this isn't a baseball board, so who really cares where the BU stands in a baseball game?

And, no, that wasn't being a smart ***, but a serious question. What makes people think that citing something that is done in baseball has any bearing on softball rules or mechanics?

Different game, different rules, different field, different mechanics, different philosophies.

Mike:

I just re-read my original post and saw that I should have said NFHS Softball Umpires Manual, because my question concerns H.S. softball and not baseball. I only mentioned baseball as a reference point.

MTD, Sr.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Let me explain my concern about introducing the little ball game into the big ball game discussions.

Last night during a state clinic, I had to step into the middle of one of my deputy's presentations to literally retake control of the clinic.

There was a new umpire who is going through training to work baseball at the same time he is trying to umpire softball. I don't agree with getting into umpiring two games at the same time, but that is not my call.

The clinician was trying to calm this guy down and did everything short of telling him to shut up and sit down.

No matter what the scenario presented by this clinician, this gentleman started every sentence with "In baseball". Regardless of the response, this guy would not give up on his "that's not what baseball teaches" attitude. My deputy handled everything with a smile and kept her composure. However, when I saw the confusion appear on the faces of the others in the clinic, I realized that I had to step in and get this young man to understand it is two different games.

Now, if he wants to go off and stick with his beliefs, there isn't much I can do about that. However, it isn't fair to my staff and the other umpires who are there to learn the ASA game. The interjection of another organization or game simply dilutes any substantial discussion intended to improve an umpire's understanding, confidence and ability to officiate an ASA softball game.

Trust me, Mark. You wouldn't want us jumping on the basketball, baseball or any other board and arguing situtations citing logic or spirit or intent of their rules with a softball tone.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Let me explain my concern about introducing the little ball game into the big ball game discussions.

Last night during a state clinic, I had to step into the middle of one of my deputy's presentations to literally retake control of the clinic.

There was a new umpire who is going through training to work baseball at the same time he is trying to umpire softball. I don't agree with getting into umpiring two games at the same time, but that is not my call.

The clinician was trying to calm this guy down and did everything short of telling him to shut up and sit down.

No matter what the scenario presented by this clinician, this gentleman started every sentence with "In baseball". Regardless of the response, this guy would not give up on his "that's not what baseball teaches" attitude. My deputy handled everything with a smile and kept her composure. However, when I saw the confusion appear on the faces of the others in the clinic, I realized that I had to step in and get this young man to understand it is two different games.

Now, if he wants to go off and stick with his beliefs, there isn't much I can do about that. However, it isn't fair to my staff and the other umpires who are there to learn the ASA game. The interjection of another organization or game simply dilutes any substantial discussion intended to improve an umpire's understanding, confidence and ability to officiate an ASA softball game.

Trust me, Mark. You wouldn't want us jumping on the basketball, baseball or any other board and arguing situtations citing logic or spirit or intent of their rules with a softball tone.

Mike:

Your missing my point. I was not as clear as I should have been in my original post (and I am now going to edit it to reflect softball only). My question was softball only, that is why I posted my question in this forum and not the Baseball Forum.

MTD, Sr.