Likely ASA Rule Changes

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA


BTW, have you ever noticed that at the upper levels they don't need to play these silly chicken **** games on the bases? How can these teams possibly win?

What changes the game from the manner in which it should be played is the coaching of these children to win at all costs.

I have to say, even at the Gold level (18 Gold to be exact)I saw this CS play being used.
Sadly one team fell for it.

But you are decidedly correct with the idea that is prevelant.............win at all costs.

Have a good one.

[gsf23]

So could I please get an explaination on the stealing rule. There was so much confusion about it here during our state tournaments that pretty much all of the teams just agreed not to steal.

What we were told was that if a player tried to steal, and the pitcher got the ball back before they could get to the base, they had to return to the base the were stealing from. Is that different now? If not, what is the reasoning behind that, pretty much defeats the whole purpose of trying to steal if all you have to do is flip it to the pitcher to make them go back.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by gsf23
So could I please get an explaination on the stealing rule. There was so much confusion about it here during our state tournaments that pretty much all of the teams just agreed not to steal.

What we were told was that if a player tried to steal, and the pitcher got the ball back before they could get to the base, they had to return to the base the were stealing from. Is that different now? If not, what is the reasoning behind that, pretty much defeats the whole purpose of trying to steal if all you have to do is flip it to the pitcher to make them go back.

I don't know who instructed you on this matter, but they obviously did not pay attention to the NUS.

I've been hearing about the confusion the rule caused, but at the Armed Forces Championship, the umpires did not need to send any runners back because the players knew and understood the rules so well, they enforced it without the umpires even opening their mouth.

The rule NEVER stopped runners proceding to the next base unless one of multiple runners were not proceding when the catcher released the ball and the pitcher caught it near the pitcher's plate.

Now, any runner may steal at any time once the pitch has passed the front edge of the plate and has not touched the plate or the batter. They are not confined or restricted by the actions, or lack of, of any other runner.

The ball will not be declared dead until the pitcher has the ball in his/her possession in the infield and all obviously play is completed.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Adding the pitcher and catcher to those involved in the IFR.

Men's Major SP home runs change to 12 from 15

When the time limit is in play, the clock begins at the first pitch.

Multiple-barrel bat (Worth) is not approved for ASA play at this point in time. (Nor will be until next year at the earliest, if at all)

JO FP requires all batting helmets include a securely attached/fastened NOCSAE approved face mask/guard. OLD FACE MASK/GUARD WHICH DO NOT HAVE A NOCSAE STAMP ARE NOT GRANDFATHERED AND ARE NOT APPROVED FOR ASA CHAMPIONSHIP PLAY.

HR for Major SP is now twelve (12)

Men's Senior play now uses the ITB after 7 complete innings

16" SP now permits a pick-off play after a legal or illegal pitch

Women's Open and Co-ed Major divisions need not run the bases on an out of the park home run

Concerning SP stealing: Delete 8.4.G 1 & 2. Replace with:

The ball remains alive until the pitcher has possession of the ball in the infield and all play is over. Runners not advancing return to the last base legally touched.

This allows for any runner to advance prior to the pitcher receiving the ball in the infield.

Womens Open SP Division will now allow stealing

Change in obstruction ruling: An obstructed runner who attains the base to which they were protected will be in jeopardy should they leave that base when a subsequents play is made on another runner.

In FP & SP where stealing is allowed, a pitched ball which passes through or lodges in the fence will be a dead ball and all runners are awarded one base from the time of the pitch. The BR will only be awarded 1st base if ball four

[WestMichBlue]

"In FP & SP where stealing is allowed, a pitched ball which passes through or lodges in the fence will be a dead ball and all runners are awarded one base from the time of the pitch. The BR will only be awarded 1st base if ball four"

How is this a change? The text of this rule and penalty hasn't changed in 30 or 40 years. Is this simply an editorial revision to add this rule to SP where stealing is allowed?

WMB

[scottk_61]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
"In FP & SP where stealing is allowed, a pitched ball which passes through or lodges in the fence will be a dead ball and all runners are awarded one base from the time of the pitch. The BR will only be awarded 1st base if ball four"

How is this a change? The text of this rule and penalty hasn't changed in 30 or 40 years. Is this simply an editorial revision to add this rule to SP where stealing is allowed?

WMB

I don't know for sure, but I have heard that this was done to bolster the ruling that already existed.
There were some notable misapplications of this situation lately.
More than likely a clarrification.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
"In FP & SP where stealing is allowed, a pitched ball which passes through or lodges in the fence will be a dead ball and all runners are awarded one base from the time of the pitch. The BR will only be awarded 1st base if ball four"

How is this a change? The text of this rule and penalty hasn't changed in 30 or 40 years. Is this simply an editorial revision to add this rule to SP where stealing is allowed?

WMB

The present rule is for FP Only. Once the gurus finish with it, the rule will probably read: "When a pitched ball lodges in or goes under, over or through the backstop".

And yes, it was changed to accommodate SP's stealing.

[Bandit]

Just received a email that contains the ASA release showing the 2005 rules. I don't see anything final about the timing of the LBR. Did this get out of committee or was it only a clearification. You know about the fact that we don't have to wait for the batter-runner to reach first base when judging the LBR against current base runners ?

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Bandit
Just received a email that contains the ASA release showing the 2005 rules. I don't see anything final about the timing of the LBR. Did this get out of committee or was it only a clearification. You know about the fact that we don't have to wait for the batter-runner to reach first base when judging the LBR against current base runners ?

If someone who has received this email from ASA would forward it to me, I will post in on Softball Umpires.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Bandit
Just received a email that contains the ASA release showing the 2005 rules. I don't see anything final about the timing of the LBR. Did this get out of committee or was it only a clearification. You know about the fact that we don't have to wait for the batter-runner to reach first base when judging the LBR against current base runners ?

Haven't been paying attention, have you?

The proposed change was withdrawn. Please don't ask why as there are at least two full threads on the subject.

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by Bandit
Just received a email that contains the ASA release showing the 2005 rules. I don't see anything final about the timing of the LBR. Did this get out of committee or was it only a clearification. You know about the fact that we don't have to wait for the batter-runner to reach first base when judging the LBR against current base runners ?

Bandit,

If you are referring to the fact that the LBR does not
go into effect until BR either touches 1B or has been
declared out, it is in this year's book.

8-7T.

[Bandit]

Dakota, Need your e-mail address. [email protected]

[Bandit]

2005 Playing Rule Changes
(Effective January 1, 2005)

Rule #1 – The Definitions

Rule #1 – Infield Fly A fair fly ball . . . which can be caught by an infielder, pitcher or catcher with ordinary effort . . .
Comment: Wording of previous definition was vague concerning the pitcher and catcher.

Rule #3 – Equipment

Rule #3 – Section 1, F SURFACE. The official bat shall be smooth with a maximum surface roughness of 250 micro-inches. It shall be free of burr and visible cracks and shall not have exposed rivets, pins, rough or sharp edges or any form of exterior fastener that would present a hazard.
Comment: Provides a process of measuring the surface roughness of a bat submitted for approval under the ASA 2004 Performance Standard.

Rule #3, Section 1, G BARREL END. If not constructed of wood and not made of one-piece construction with the barrel end closed, the barrel end shall have a rubber or vinyl plastic or other approved material insert or end cap at the large end of the bat. The insert or end cap shall be firmly secured and permanently affixed so that it cannot be removed by anyone other than the manufacturer without damaging or destroying the end cap.
Comment: Current rule applied only to metal bats. This rule change applies to the rule to all non-wood bats, including composite bats.

Rule #3, Section 1, K NEW CONSTRUCTION. The official bat shall be one-piece construction or a multi-piece permanently assembled bat. NOT APPROVED: two-piece bats, multiple piece bats, bats not sold as a single product are not approved, and bats where at least one portion of the bat is intended to be removable by a player from another portion of the bat.
Comment: Two-piece bats are being developed by manufacturers so that there is increased access to the inside of the bat where bat doctors can alter the bat to make it exceed the ASA 2004 Bat Performance Standard.

Rule #3, Section 2, B WARM-UP BAT. The warm-up bat shall comply with the safety grip and safety knob requirements of the official bat (See Rule 3, Sec 1 H & I).
Comment: Safety grip and safety knob requirements should be the same for all bats.


Rule #3, Section 5, E HELMETS. …… All Junior Olympic Fast Pitch batting helmets shall be equipped with a securely attached NOCSAE approved face mask guard.
Comment: To insure the new face mask/guard is permanently attached.

Rule 3, Section 5, D FACE MASKS/FACE GUARDS. Any defensive player or offensive player can wear an approved plastic face mask/guard. Face masks/guards that are cracked or deformed, or if padding is deteriorated or is missing, are prohibited from use. Fast pitch catchers cannot wear the plastic face mask/guard. Approved are the Game Face and Sports-Guard face masks. EFFECTIVE 2005. All Junior Olympic FAST PITCH batting helmets shall be equipped with a NOCSAE approved face mask/guard.

Rule #5 – The Game

Rule #5, Section 8 A 1 HOME RUN RULE . Change from 15 home runs to 12.
Comment: In Men’s Major SP Championships, no team ever reached the 12 home run limit. With the adjusting of the bats and balls, is needed to be competitive.

Rule #5, Section 10 TIME LIMIT RULE. When the time limit is in effect, the time limit begins with the first pitch.
Comment: Now that time limits have been authorized for all region/area play (ASA Code 510 O), there should be a definitive start time.

Rule #5, Section 11 C NEW MEN’S SENIOR SLOW PITCH ONLY. Use the international tie breaker rule after completion of seven (7) innings.
Comment: To conform with other senior organizations.

Rule #6 – Pitching Regulations (16” Slow Pitch)

Rule #6, Section 7 Delete “No pick off can be made.”
Comment: 16” Slow Pitch teams at the National Championship requested this change.

Rule #8 – Batter – Runner and Runner

Rule #8, Section 3 I Add to exception: Women’s Open and Coed Major.
Comment: To allow the Women’s Open and Coed Major division to not run the bases on home runs.

Rule #8, Section 4 G Men’s and Women’s Open Slow Pitch Only. Deletes #1 and #2 and replace with …. The ball remains alive until the pitcher has possession of the ball in the infield and all immediate play has been completed. Runners not advancing return to the last base legally touched.
Comment: Eliminate some confusion of when the runners can leave and return to the base. Also, eliminates any judgment as to what the vicinity of the pitching plate is. Should be treated the same as when a base hit is returned to the pitcher in the infield. If no runners are attempting to advance the umpire can call time to stop play. Adding stealing to the upper division of Women’s Slow Pitch will increase participation. It will be a perfect transition between fast pitch and slow pitch.

Rule #8, Section 5 B 1 1. An obstructed runner may not be called out between the two bases where obstructed unless properly appealed for:
NEW a) when an obstructed runner, after the obstruction, safely obtains the base they would have been awarded, in the umpire’s judgment, had there been no obstruction and there is a subsequent play on a different runner, the obstructed runner is no longer protected between the bases where they were obstructed and may be put out,
b. when properly appealed for missing a base,
c. when properly appealed for leaving a base before a fly ball was first touched
d. when committing an act of interference, or
e. when passing another runner.
Comment: This change maintains an offense/defense balance that eliminates confusion on an obstruction play between bases.

Rule #8, Section 5 C NEW Fast Pitch, Slow Pitch with Stealing (Men’s and Women’s Open Slow Pitch.) When a pitched ball that remains alive lodges or goes under or over or through the backstop.
EFFECT: The ball is dead and all runners are awarded one base only. The batter is awarded first base only on the fourth ball.
Comment: Makes all games consistent and better understanding by players and umpires.

[whiskers_ump]

Thanks Bandit.

[UmpireErnie]

When the time limit is in play, the clock begins at the first pitch

I also agree it is hard enough to get the game started on time without waiting until the first real pitch to start the clock.. since there is already a time limit on the warm up period (i.e 3 pitches or one minute in SP) I would much rather see the time limit start when the home team takes the feild. But at least there would be a difinitve rule. I don't know if you have input in this but I would also like to see something about when the clock should STOP. Injuries? Lenghty official time outs such as batting out of order and consulting the scorebooks.. broken base.. moose on the feild (Hey, I am in Alaska! I had it happen last season! Trust me, you do NOT argue with a moose!) I have always stoped the clock in these situations but the only thing I can point to in the book for doing so is "Rule 10".

Looking forward to the 2005 Season!!

Ernie