Women's A Game Situation

[argodad]

Situation from the ASA Women’s A Fast Nationals.

Bottom of the 8th, score tied, R1 on 3B, two outs. As the pitcher begins her motion, batter yells “Time Blue!” Time is not granted, but pitcher stops her motion and steps off the front of the rubber. PU calls illegal pitch and sends the winning run home. If you are on one of the bases (3-umpire system), what would you do?.

[mcrowder]

Actions by the batter cannot cause an illegal pitch. In a case like this, even if time was not granted, you have a dead ball.

[azbigdawg]

WRONG!!!!!!!!!! It is an illegal pitch..time can only be granted by the umpire. coaches teach their girls at a young age to complete their pitch.

[ntxblue]

I'll side with mcrowder on this one.

At our 2004 Regional ASA clinic, this specific situation was discussed. Instructions were to NOT call the illegal pitch but to simply reset and play on. Many teams teach this technique to players in hopes of getting an illegal pitch call. The instructions were for use in championship play. Merle Butler was present during the discussion.

Gary

[argodad]

In our post-game, along with the UIC, we agreed that it should have been NO PITCH, with a possible warning to the batter for unsportsmanlike conduct. My question is, how should the base umpire handle the situation if PU makes the IP call?

[azbigdawg]

I would think that by rule the ONLY way you can call no pitch is if you thik its INTENTIONAL..but Im not sure what rule you would use for that..any ideas?

[TexBlue]

Rule 7-3-E says " After the ball is in play, the batter may not step out of the batter's box to stop play unless time has been granted by the umpire.

EFFECT: All action will continue and the pitch will be called."

Now, we also enforce this as was stated by MCCrowder, I'll probably call a ball on the batter. Unless I think it was a ploy to get an illegal pitch, then it's a no pitch, nothing happened, the batter gets a warning and we play on. The pressure is on the PU to decide what is warranted here.

In Federation, it's a no pitch if the pitcher stops, it's a strike on the batter if the pitcher continues, I believe. This may be where some of the confusion is comin from.

But you gotta think, if you made it to the Women's Nationals, you're aggressive enough to pitch the ball and let the umpire make a call. Don't make it easy for us, make us figure it out and go from there.

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by azbigdawg
WRONG!!!!!!!!!! It is an illegal pitch..time can only be granted by the umpire. coaches teach their girls at a young age to complete their pitch.

ASA clearly states that the actions of a batter cannot cause an illegal pitch. Rule 6:9:F addresses this issue specifically.

Using that as my guide, I, too, would have called this a "no pitch."

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by TexBlue
Rule 7-3-E says " After the ball is in play, the batter may not step out of the batter's box to stop play unless time has been granted by the umpire.

EFFECT: All action will continue and the pitch will be called."

Not exactly the rule I would apply here. Note that when the batter called "time" the pitcher stopped her motion. 6:9:F is a much better fit to the situation.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by TexBlue
Rule 7-3-E says " After the ball is in play, the batter may not step out of the batter's box to stop play unless time has been granted by the umpire.

EFFECT: All action will continue and the pitch will be called."

Now, we also enforce this as was stated by MCCrowder, I'll probably call a ball on the batter.

A ball???!!! Why would you call a ball? A ball is in the batter's favor? If a pitch is to be called, it should be a strike that is to the batter's detriment. A warning for unsportsmanlike play is also warranted.

Here are the FED rules (that are not pertinent to this thread, but I would bet ASA has similar rules):

Rule 6-2-4e
No pitch shall be declared when: e. a player, manager or coach calls "Time" or employs any other word or phrase or commits any act, while the ball is live and in play, for the obvious purpose of trying to make the picher commit an illegal pitch.
PENALTY: ... In (e), if the batter tries to cause the pitcher to commit an illegal pitch after the pitchaer has starter her delivery, the ball remains live if the pitcher legally delivers the pitch (see 7-3-1 Effect 2). Also for infraction of (e), see 3-6-8.

Rule 7-3-1
PENALTY: If a pitcher is commited to delivering the pitch, the batter leaves the box at the risk of having a strike called while being out of position.
EFFECT 2: If the pitcher stops or hesitates in her delivery as a result of the batter stepping out of the box or holding up her hand to request time it shall not be an illegal pitch. However, if ... the pitcher legally delivers the ball, it shall be called a strike and the ball remains live. If a pitch is not delivered, a rule has been violated by both the batter and the pitcher. The umpire shall call time, declare "no-pitch" and begin play anew. If the umpire judges the batter's action to be a deliberate attempt to create an illegal pitch, the umpire will penalize according to 3-6-8.

Rule 3-6-8
A coach, player, substitue or other bench personnel shall not: call "time" or use any command or commit any act for the purpose of causing an illegal pitch. The umpire shall issue a team warning to the coach of the team involved and the next offender on that team shall be restricted to the dugout for the remainder of that game.

Despite my current unfamiliarity with ASA rules (haven't worked any for a few years, but did about 20 years prior to getting that part of my summer back), I'm betting that McCrowder is correct and that the umpire who made this call is chewing on his underwear now... probably never to be invited back to a national tournament. Scerwed the pooch on this one.

DEAD BALL, NO PITCH, RUNNER STAYS ON 3rd.

[CecilOne]

Thank you for the refs, Tony! Good job.

[azbigdawg]

hmmm.. I feel like the lone ranger..I would still contend (ASA) that unless it was intentional.. there is no time out, and the pitch is what it is...IP, ball, strike, whatever..

Tony, You are my hero. How much time did you spend on this answer? Thanks for the references. I'll know what to do next time this happens to me. I would have done the same as you said but now I can back it up.

[argodad]

One last request for your thoughts and insight on my original problem...

What do you do if you're on the bases, you think the batter intentionally tried to fool the pitcher, but the PU calls IP and brings home the winning run?

[azbigdawg]

NOTHING!!!!!!! HE GOT IT RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (but Im just one voice screaming in the wilderness)