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Wed Jul 28, 2004, 01:13pm
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Tell me the answers to these questions ....... please...
1. Batter hits ball to outfield. BR rounds 1b only to be obstructed by 1b standing on base. BR chooses to go back to 1b because OF throws ball back in quickly but no play on them. My opinion, BR would not have made 2B even WO obstruction. 2. Same play as above only BR (in Blue's humble opinion) mighta/coulda made it to 2B if they didn't turn and go back. No play made on BR. 3. Same play as 1 above except a play was made on BR going back to 1st ...... tagged before getting back to base. 4. Same play as 1 above except a play was made on BR going back to 1st ....... no tag, back safely.
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Wish I'da umped before I played. What a difference it'a made! 
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Wed Jul 28, 2004, 01:38pm
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Bottom line OBS is a judgement call, actually it is a double judgement call!! 1st you have to judge that there was obstruction, then you have to judge what base the obstructed runner would have reached if there was no OBS. So in your situation you answered #1 in your opinion (which is not protestable) she was on the base she would have reached if there was no OBS, so we drop our left arm and go on with life.
2) If you really think she would have made it to 2nd if no OBS when play if over announce "Dead Ball, I had obstruction at first base, runner is awarded 2nd base." 3) As soon as you would have called the runner out, declare "Dead ball I had obstruction at first base, runner is awarded 1st base" (I said 1st as you referenced #1 where she wouldn't have made it to 2nd IYO). 4) Same as #1 if there is no out on the obstructed runner then you simply drop your arm and go on with life. With OBS you only kill the play if the runner gets out, between the bases where they were obstructed, then you place the runner where in your judgement (IYJ) they would have been if there was no OBS. If they are safe on the base IYJ they would have reached then it is a mute point you drop your arm and go on, now be ready for the coach to ask you about it and your answer is "Yes, I had obstruction, the runner is on the base that they would have gotten in my judgement." The other scenerio is they are safe on a base prior to the one they would have reached IYJ. For this let's change your scenerio a little, speedy Sally gets tripped and falls down rounding 1st while ball gets by RF, she gets up and back on 1st when RF throws ball in. IYJ Sally would have been safe on 2nd (maybe 3rd with a muffed ball HTBT) so after play stops you call dead ball and award 2nd (or 3rd) as you judge she would have reached.
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Wed Jul 28, 2004, 06:57pm
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Simply unbelievable.
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Thu Jul 29, 2004, 08:10am
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NO, YES, NO, NO
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Thu Jul 29, 2004, 10:24am
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Only #2 is a possible award of the next base and then only if IYJ the runner would have reached it, not might or could. That requires judging an attempt would have been made.
Don't forget if the out is INT, that takes precedence even if between the same bases as OBS>
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
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Thu Jul 29, 2004, 01:29pm
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Quote:
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Thu Jul 29, 2004, 01:37pm
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3afan,
ASA took the "about to recieve out last year (2004 season) and NFHS is taking it out starting the 2005 season, so at least in those two rule bodies it is that simple, if the runner reacts to the field who is not fielding a batted ball, or has the ball in their possession then it is OBS.
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Thu Jul 29, 2004, 04:06pm
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How about this one? It happened in a game I was in last Monday. I've heard different interpretations from different umpires, though one of those interpretations seems to be the "majority decision." I'll say what that is at the end and see if y'all agree:
Batter-runner (BR) hits ground ball to short. F6 bobbles the ball. At that moment, F3 straddles the bag, completely blocking the lane the BR would use to get to first base -- there is no way BR could have touched first base without running into F3. F6 recovers and throws to F3. The BR, who would have easily reached the base safely had he not slowed down to avoid a collision, was out by half a step. Is this obstruction? The ruling on the field -- and what seems to be the majority decision, which I personally think is a bad rule, particularly in a low-level recreational league -- is that the BR slowed of their own accord and there was no collision that prevented the BR from reaching first; therefore there is no obstruction and BR is out. Apparently, the BR would have to physically collide with F3 while running in order to be awarded first base due to obstruction. Is that how most of "the blue" interpret this rule in this scenario? That may be a correct interpretation of a rule, but if so, IMO, it's a bad rule, at least at the novice/recreational level. [Edit: ASA Men's slow pitch, just in case it matters.] [Edited by ziggy29 on Jul 29th, 2004 at 05:35 PM]
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Thu Jul 29, 2004, 04:37pm
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Quote:
Let's try this one;... If a defensive person is blocking the base or the basepath without the ball, this is impeding the runner and this is obstruction,... This is from ASA POE #35. That is as simple as it can be put. There is no burden at all placed on the runner. In the case above, F3 commited obstruction.
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Thu Jul 29, 2004, 04:40pm
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Ziggy,
This is one of the HTBT scenarios. This is basically a judgement call. First, you have F3 straddling the bag without the ball, this is could be considered obstruction. This is where the second part comes into play. In order to be obstruction, you have to impede the runners progress. If he slowed down because he thought he was going to be out anyway, no OBS. However, if BR slowed down to avoid collision and in the umpires judgement BR would have made it to 1B safely, then it should be called OBS. Evidently from your post, the blues felt BR slowed down due to the fact BR thought he/she would be out anyway. From the scenario described, I would have obstruction and BR is now on 1B. [Edited by heyblue on Jul 29th, 2004 at 06:25 PM]
__________________
heyblue
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Thu Jul 29, 2004, 08:16pm
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Thanks, Blue. It's interesting, because the umpires on the field -- and one of the three I talked to about it after the fact -- thought the call on the field (i.e. no obstruction, batter's out) was correct. Yet there is no doubt, to anyone who saw the play, that (a) F3 was blocking the baseline before the throw, and AFTER the throw even though the throw didn't force him into the lane, and (b) BR clearly slowed down to a near-crawl for the last 1/4 of the baseline to avoid a collision.
I was pretty sure ASA wouldn't be encouraging injury by telling the runner that the only way they wouldn't be called out is to run full-speed into the fielder, but I wanted some confirmation. It's recreational, beer-league softball, for crying out loud. I didn't think they'd have rules that encourage unnecessary contact and potential for injury.
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Thu Jul 29, 2004, 09:27pm
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heyblue, and ziggy29
Go back and read my last post, then re-read POE 35 ziggy says "F3 blocked the lane" POE 35 says if F3 "blocks the basepath without the ball...this is obstruction" heyblue says "F3 straddling the bag....this could be considered obstruction" POE 35 says "this is obstruction" There is no need to judge why runner slowed down, only if runner could have made the bag.
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