Dropped Third Strike - Coaches Teaching their players to Run

kellerumps · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 10:17am

What would you all do, if you discovered that a coach was telling their players to run on a Dropped Third Strike, in the hopes of confusing the defense?

I actually had a coach admit to me a couple of weeks ago that they were doing this. I think it was 14-U "A" ball.

Dakota · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 10:54am

It is not illegal. The coach is taking proper advantage of the rules, IMO.

JEL · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 11:11am

Agreed,
If you wait and look to be certain of a catch, you lose valuable time. I have seen many teams teach a movement towards first on all third strikes. Also, many catchers after catching strike 3 will jump up and get in position to apply tag, and some even apply it anyway. IMO, this is a mark of a well coached team.

Yerout · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 12:18pm

I concur with the above. What peeves me are the coaches in the younger levels of rec ball who try to use this as a diversion to score a run. Though 1st is occupied with less than two outs, they will yell at the BR to run on a dropped 3K to draw a throw and allow the runner on 3rd to score. I have twice, after explaining the D3K rule to the offending coach, called interference and ruled the runner closest to home out. When they questioned me, I instructed them to look up the interference rule, either retired runner continuing to draw a throw or verbal interference. I've never had a problem convincing them of my ruling. When I had one of the offending teams a week or so after invoking this call, I overheard the head coach tell the assistant, "We've got that guy who knows all those little picky rules, so we've got to be careful."

Dakota · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 12:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Yerout
I concur with the above. What peeves me are the coaches in the younger levels of rec ball who try to use this as a diversion to score a run. Though 1st is occupied with less than two outs, they will yell at the BR to run on a dropped 3K to draw a throw and allow the runner on 3rd to score. I have twice, after explaining the D3K rule to the offending coach, called interference and ruled the runner closest to home out. When they questioned me, I instructed them to look up the interference rule, either retired runner continuing to draw a throw or verbal interference. I've never had a problem convincing them of my ruling. When I had one of the offending teams a week or so after invoking this call, I overheard the head coach tell the assistant, "We've got that guy who knows all those little picky rules, so we've got to be careful."

Which "above" do you concur with? With the examples you gave, it is not with me.

Speaking ASA, you have no basis for the interference call. The rule provides a specific and direct exception to the retired runner continuing to run rule for the 3rd strike rule. And, since the rule is talking about retired runners, the context would be a retired batter (i.e. not eligible to attempt to advance).

The ASA position here is the defense must know the game situation and the catcher must not attempt to put out a batter who is already out. If she does, the offense may legally take advantage of the defensive mistake.

bluezebra · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 01:14pm

If 1B is occupied with less than two outs, "BATTER'S OUT!, BATTER'S OUT!".

If F2 doesn't understand, or hasn't been properly taught (the usual case), tough noogies.

I had a college game years ago, where four batters reached 1B on 3rd strikes not caught.

TwoBits · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 06:12pm

Can we use the proper term? It is not "dropped third strike". The proper term in "uncaught third strike".

Just a pet peeve of mine. Even I'm guilty of using the improper term and I am trying hard to fix that.

TexBlue · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 07:20pm

I'm with Tom. If the defense doesn't know the situation, then the offense should benefit. No interference here at all. Now, about 7 or 8 years ago, this was a valid call. They changed it back in '94, '95. I'm guessing here. It's just another piece of the game strategy.

azbigdawg · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 16, 2004, 11:31pm

That is NOT an interference call... That is a SMART coach....

Dakota · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 01:30am

Quote:

Originally posted by TwoBits
Can we use the proper term? It is not "dropped third strike". The proper term in "uncaught third strike".

Actually, while that might be the more precise term, if by "proper" you mean the term used in the rule book, that would be "dropped third strike" and/or "third strike rule" (speaking ASA).

Bandit · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 17, 2004, 07:20am

In some circles I have heard it called "DC". Dumb Catcher.

bellnier · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 18, 2004, 06:56pm

Bluezebra, who's yelling "batter's out, batter's out" with less than two outs and runner on 1st?
The ump? My copy of ASA book specifically condemns PU yelling "batter's out" after strike three.

Dakota · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 18, 2004, 11:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bellnier
My copy of ASA book specifically condemns PU yelling "batter's out" after strike three.

Check the 2004 ASA Rule Book, Umpire Manual section, p. 224 "Helpful Hints for the Plate Umpire" #9. What exception does it give?

bellnier · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 19, 2004, 08:16am

Can there be 4 official outs to end an inning? Scenario: two outs, runner on third. Batter hits popup in foul territory to left and short of third base. During attempt to catch ball runner on third interferes with 3B, but ball is caught anyway. Doesn't ASA assign two concurrent outs here, resulting in a 4 out inning? Thanks.

bluezebra · #15 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 19, 2004, 12:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bellnier
Bluezebra, who's yelling "batter's out, batter's out" with less than two outs and runner on 1st?
The ump? My copy of ASA book specifically condemns PU yelling "batter's out" after strike three.

ASA has a number of stupid mechanics I don't agree with. Besides the "Strike Three, Batter's Out!" call, calling a runner safe at home on a no-tag by the fielder and a no-touch by the runner. That does nothing but set the stage for arguments and ejections.