Received Coaches Complain

[wadeintothem]

I've finished up with the league I umped last year and this year and began working with another league in a dif. county.

After 4 games, 2nd game with this coach he filed a protest on the following grounds (he told me during the game he was protesting):

1. I provided a warning to a coach who was excessively complaining about balls and strikes (this coach was NOT on his team, it was the other team)

2. He appealed on a missed base, which I ruled against. She touched the base. His angle at 3B did not give him the proper view at the 1B side of home plate where her foot hit.

3. On a passed ball his catcher and I had a minor collision as she was coming up from behind me after chasing the ball - she was trying to make like a diving tag at home plate(I was trying to get out of the way but lost track of the ball as it rolled all over) - he wanted umpire interference.

3. (this is what really ticked him off- but he was a jerk the whole game) - On a play at home plate, his runner collided with the catcher who had the ball - she was standing up. I ruled her out for interference. (tag was late - she would have been safe). Incidentally, He had to take her out of the game for injury due to that play.

4. His batter hit the ball with a foot on home plate. She was out at 1B by the play by the BU (not close and not contested by him) - I had already ruled her out by signal for the foot on plate.

The coach refuses to play games if I ump - My UIC is reworking the sched... Not a good start to this league. I dont know how it will turn out but I explained my rationale about everything to the UIC who supports my rulings... but there is still a coach making waves, even in the wrong.

ASA 12U


[Edited by wadeintothem on May 18th, 2004 at 08:55 PM]

[mo99]

It is really ashame that jerks like that are even allowed to coach little girls 12U.He should concentrate solely on teaching the girls how to play the game and have fun.On what grounds is he filing the protest,since judgement calls can not be protested,only rules violations
1.You may warn a coach that he/she may not argue balls and strikes.Toss them if they continue.(Umpire Judgement)

2.Appeal on a missed base.(Umpire Judgement)

3.Not a batted ball hitting an umpire before a fielder has a play.In this case,you are part of the playing field.Play on.

4.Batter is out for stepping on home plate prior to hitting the ball.(Umpire Judgement)

Hopefully your UIC wont give into this #$*hole,and continues to schedule you his games.Someone needs to give this jerk a rule book and also explain that only applied rules are grounds for protest,not judgement calls.You dont happen to umpire in SouthEast PA do you? I would love to do the plate in one of this clowns games.It is such a shame for the young ladies he is "coaching."

Jeff
NCAA,ASA,NFHS Umpire

[wadeintothem]

What I typed above are his grounds to protest the game...

When I posted it, I had just got off the phone with the UIC. Basically its a complaint and a protest and notice he would not play any games I umped - which is STUPID.. since I havent seen another ump over the age of 17 in this league yet (except the UIC). I think the coach might be used to pushing umps around.. I have a sense that it looks very bad on me.. they dont know me.

I agree its a shame about the coach and his attitude.

Here is an exchange, paraphrased, but pretty close".

Coach: "She did not collide with the catcher, she slipped on the plate hitting the catcher. I hope you know she was injured"

Me: "You realize if she had slid she probably wouldnt have been injured right?"

Coach "Yeah well she didnt slide".

Me: "I know. That is why I called her out, this is exactly why they have the rule. You should teach them to slide on a play at home."

Coach "Well I am protesting this game"

I'm really aggravated right now.

Now the good part is I might get moved to the 14U games instead of these 12U games.. but I'm still aggravated.

[mo99]

In the scenario you described,the runner is out.She can not remain on her feet and make contact with the catcher,regardless of coaches excuse.She doesnt have to slide(unless a league rule),but she must avoid contact with the catcher.If contact is malicious,then she is called out and ejected from the game.
Under these circumstances,a good UIC would not even give any creedence to a whining coach if it doesnt pertain to a rule or umpire mis-conduct.Dont take it to heart,there are plenty of jerks like the coach in question.Just dont give them an inch.

Jeff
NCAA,ASA,NFHS Umpire

[kellerumps]

I(We) would personally ask for this guys next game and work it to the best of our ability. There is no way this coach would keep us down.

Good Luck

[Steve M]

My approach would be just like the Kellers - I want that coach's next game.

When I assigned, that was my approach to bogus complaints & whining.

[chuck chopper]

It appears you made all the correct calls, and the problem is the Coach. The Leagues I ump for all have a governing board. They control their own problems. Our Ump group from time to time have to report problem coaches to that board for what we hope will be disiplinary action.
Perhaps there is such a board your UIC can go to if this gets ugly.

[Del-Blue]

I can't believe your UIC is re-working the scheduel. Since when do coaches have control over who umps their games. I would take his next game, and when he refuses to play, easy money game over other team wins by forteit.

[buddha69]

Okay, here's one from last night. 1st game - R1 on 1st base. BR hits the ball to the outfield, R1 rounds 2nd, but miss it, stop goes back to tag 2nd as that time BR is right behind her that girl is fast, R1 and BR proceeds to 3rd they tag 3rd they are sent home, by that time the ball is on its way to the plate, the runners can't see the ball, the R1 and the catcher are going to hit cause that this time the ball is a right there for the catcher to catch it, but R1 is coming full blast as the BR is right behind her. R1 and the catcher hit each other as the ball touch the tip of the glove and R1 touches homeplate. then BR touches home too.

Defense coach started to "yell" interference on the runner. I said "No". Catch was making a play to catch the ball. Runners are safe.


2nd game - Ball is to the F5, BR runs to 1st, F5 throws the ball to 1st, the ball that F5 threw is getting F1 pulled closer to homeplate. BR is trying to get to 1st, runs into F3 as she is pulled from base to get the ball. They hit.
I called the BR out for interference.

Is that Right?

[chuck chopper]

No, I think if 1st baseman got pulled into the baseline & BR & F3 collided, then its just a crash. However if they use a double bag & BR was on the fair side of the line and F3 WAS NOT on the foul side, then you may have got it right.

[wadeintothem]

Thanks for your input guys. I call tonight - and the UIC Will be there with the letter from the coach and we are going to discuss this umpire cutting and running over an out of control coach. Oddly enough, this coach, before the game came to me on the side and warned me to watch the OTHER coach who is known for problems. I have this coach sat if nothing gets changed. Any coach that would forfiet a game over BS with all the parents there is a real problem. I may call the UIC later today. I hadnt had a complaint before and wasnt sure how to handle it. In fact, the closest i've come to ejecting a coach was that game, and it wasnt even this coach, it was the other team coach I warned.

[mcrowder]

buddha - don't hijack the thread - should have started a new one.

wade - you need to have a serious talk with the UIC. If he's going to rework schedules based on a complaint from a coach, he has no business being a UIC, and I'd leave this league if I were you. Coaches cannot run umpiring. It is a horrible precedent.

Now - when he said the words "I'm protesting this game", you have obligations to fulfill. You have to ask him what rule he feels you have misinterpreted, and you have to make notes in the scorebook of the game sitch as it is at the moment of protest. Make a show of it if you have to. Make sure coach is aware of whatever protest fee your league has (and if you don't have one, you NEED one). Then, as UIC (or league pres, depending on your bylaws), I don't even talk to the coach until I have that fee. Then, after depositing that fee into the league's account, knowing this knucklehead will not get it back, I simply inform him that judgement calls are not protestable.

If coach simply wants to lodge a complaint - fine. Thanks coach for your input. No, coach, I will not change the umpiring schedule. Yes, coach, if you wish to forfeit your games due to the umpires we put on the field, you may certainly do so. Yes, coach, in our league if a team forfeits 2 games in a season, they are removed from coaching.

See what good league by-laws can do for you.

[wadeintothem]

Regarding the protest: I did notifiy the scorer and the opposing coach but only on the Interference at home. I was not aware he was going to protest as many plays as he did. He only told me he was protesting the Interference call.. I also made my own notes on the back of my scorecard for his team. I dont know anything about the league by laws. There is no way his protest would hold merit under ASA rules IMO.

Well I have written a memo to the UIC and just got off the phone again. I have been moved to the 14U games but he agrees the coaches complaints are without merit. I will also likely be working a championship June 19-20th which I have never had the honor to do before!

I'm still aggravated by it all. I agree the coach should be put in his place.. but I'm thinking that will not happen.

It's unfortunate as this league uses minors (under 18) for the vast majority of their games and I believe this coach is likely accustomed to being able to bully his way to favorable calls.

I prefer the 14U and would have rather have had that anyway, and I have 3 games this sat at that level... but I agree the UIC should have not changed a damn thing for this coach.

I speak to the UIC tonight face to face.

Thanks again to all.

This is my memo to the UIC:

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Scorpions will be referred to as Blue (protesting team). S. Creek Sliders will be referred to as Green.

Basis for protest and my rulings with explanations:
1. A) PROTEST: Warning provided to Green Coach for excessive complaining regarding balls and strikes.
B) MY RULING AND EXPLAINATION: The coach was complaining about the pitches and was without merit in her complaints. I have a consistent and legal strike zone.
- The Green coach was in fact in violation of ASA 10.6.A (judgment).
- The Green coach was warned in accordance with ASA 10.9.D.
- The Blue coach has no basis to protest this warning. ASA 9.1.C.
- The Blue coach is incorrect as to his interpretation and/or understanding of the rules in question.


2. A) PROTEST: Umpire Interference – With Blue R1 on 3B – on a Green wild pitch/passed ball – R1 breaks for home. The catcher / umpire collided possibly delaying the tag by the catcher (there was no throw or attempt to throw). R1 was called safe at home.
At the time of the play, the coach appealed for Umpire Interference. I did not grant the appeal.
B) MY RULING AND EXPLAINATION: Umpire Interference is not called on a passed ball. The ball is live and the Umpire for all intents and purposes is a part of the playing field.
Umpire Interference – ASA 8.1.E. applies only to a batted ball before it passes a defender other that F1 so would not apply to this situation in any case.
Umpire Interference under ASA 8.6.F. applies to an attempted pick off play and was more likely the rule being protested. Interference is not called on a passed ball as specifically stated in ASA 8.6.F.
- The Blue coach has no basis to protest this call: ASA 9.1.I.
- The Blue coach is incorrect as to his interpretation and/or understanding of the rules in question.

3. A) PROTEST: Runner Interference: Runner coming home collided with F2 in possession of the ball and did not slide. Coach appealed on the Basis that the runner slipped on home plate causing the collision. The coach advised me later that the Runner was injured on this play.
B) MY RULING AND EXPLAINATION: I concur that the action on the part of the runner was not intentional and certainly was not flagrant. As a result of this judgment, I ruled the runner out for Interference and did not eject said player. Had there been no interference on the part of the runner, I would have ruled the runner safe.

ASA 8.6.Q.: The Runner is out: When a defensive player has the ball or is about to catch a thrown ball and the runner remains upright and crashes into the defensive player. If the act is determined to be flagrant, the offender shall be ejected. An errant throw drawing the defense into the patch of the runner is not interference. Effect: Dead Ball – Runner out.

ASA 8.6.Q. directly applies to this ruling.
P.O.E. 13 specifically states that the purpose of this rule is to prevent injury. As there was an injury on this play, ASA’s intent of this rule is clear.
- The Blue coach has no basis to protest this call: ASA 9.1.I.
- The Blue coach is incorrect as to his interpretation and/or understanding of the rules in question.

4. A) PROTEST: Runner coming home missed the plate. Coach made proper appeal in accordance with 8.7.G.
B) MY RULING AND EXPLAINATION: The player did touch home plate in my judgment.
- The Blue coach has no basis to protest this call: ASA 9.1.E.

I would like to state for the record that in my opinion it would be a grave error to grant any type of protest or accommodation to a coach filing a protest that is without merit.

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[Edited by wadeintothem on May 19th, 2004 at 02:02 PM]

[mcrowder]

For all of these, if he did not use the word protest AT THE TIME OF THE CALL, there is no protest. That piece of the puzzle should not even be discussed.

Hope this coach lost a decent protest fee for this (did you charge him quadruple?)

[wadeintothem]

He told me he was protesting the Runner Interference at the same time he made line up changes due to the injury to the runner which was before the start of the next inning. (the interference was 2nd out).

I think it is very obvious that at the ASA level, his protest means nothing. I think he is more bucking for action at the league level. I doubt there is a protest fee at all... but I'll ask tonight.

I'm not going to get worked up about it. Like I told the UIC, I must make the calls when I see them as I see them; I cant do anymore than that. I can't sit and think through who's team is doing what, what blue team was doing, who is the coach, how the coach is going to feel, etc. I gotta make the call.

I believe with my time spent here and studying the rules I have made a real effort to make sure I know the rules as best as I can... certainly better than the 16 y/o girl ump this coach can probably puff his chest at and get a call his way. He reminds me of a certain soft-ball-nut who shall remain nameless.