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Thu Apr 01, 2004, 02:55pm
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Let's Start over (somewhat)
NFHS
R1 (on 2nd) R2 (on 1st) Count 2-Balls, 0-Strikes Pitch is delivered - Ball 4 - and goes out of play (deflected off F2's helmet) DEAD BALL Ok we all agree, right? Good NOW....... Dead ball table says: "DEAD BALL IMMEDIATELY... Activity: ...#16: A pitched ball that becomes blocked (F.P) Reference: 5-1-1g AWARD or PENALTIES: ...#16 Award all runners one base from time of pitch (my emphasis) References: 8-4-3c" "Rule 8-4-3:.. a runner is entitled to advance without liability to be put out when:...(c)(FP) a wild pitch or passed ball lodges in or goes under, over or thru a backstop. PENALTY: The ball is dead and all runners are awarded one base only. The batter is awarded first base only on the fourth ball." Still so far so good?, Good.... Is someone (other than the umpire who ruled in the original situation) saying that the runners are advanced TWO bases? One because they were forced by the batter's walk and another because the ball has gone out of play? I've been wrong before, but I don't buy that at all... The dead ball table specifically says the award is from the time of the pitch... The rule specifically says ONE base. If the rule waqs meant otherwise, then the batter who was walked should get to second, shouldn't she? Awarded first on the walk and second on the dead ball!! 
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Thu Apr 01, 2004, 05:46pm
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Quote:
Quote:
The ball hit the catcher's helment. [/B][/QUOTE] D'oh! Okay, I'm awake now. What's a helment?
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Thu Apr 01, 2004, 06:00pm
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Okay, let's try again.
For me, I offering ASA Bases loaded based on the sentence in 8.5.C.Effect which states: The batter is awarded first base only on the fourth ball.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Thu Apr 01, 2004, 06:11pm
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Oh well,
We just got the letter from teh state that says they have now decided that the ruling was wrong.
Our guys will be better umpires for it. But it is so strange to me that so many ruled the same way but are hung up on teh last part of the sentance which grammatically does not ONLY give the batter first base. Almost all the ASA people agreed with the ruling. The majority of the NFHS people gave teh same ruling. Most NCAA people ruled the same........ Sounds like somewhere we all got it wrong or the ruling body has got it wrong now. What do you want to be there will be some cleaning up of the language in teh rule book next year? Oh well, live and learn. I am proud of the guy who made the ruling, I know him well. He will be a better umpire for the situation as will we all.
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ISF ASA/USA Elite NIF
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Thu Apr 01, 2004, 06:14pm
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Re: Let's Start over (somewhat)
Quote:
I went through the same procedure in an earlier post. However, because of the way the penalty award reads, BR ain't going to 2B. I have the bases loaded. Play on.
__________________
glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Thu Apr 01, 2004, 06:21pm
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Re: Oh well,
Quote:
Pardoon my french, but what is the damn ruling?
__________________
glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Thu Apr 01, 2004, 06:40pm
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Re: Re: Oh well,
Quote:
But they are saying only fist base is given and force the two runners. Now, consider that who the went to for a ruling is a member of the association that rarely shows up, hasn't participated in years BUT sits on the states rule committe. There are people within the association that want to challenge the ruling of the state as being based on improper reading of the penalty. Failing to be grammatically correct, I guess. I am really amazed that so many agree with the umpires on teh field but only a few do not and that is where we are, in a steady debate. This one is long from over as far as I can see. Should get interesting, I will keep you guys up to date when I hear more. Scott
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ISF ASA/USA Elite NIF
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Thu Apr 01, 2004, 06:53pm
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My two cents: batter gets first only. Runners move up one base only from TOP. There is no "double" award. Bases loaded.
Even if, by the time the ball went into DBT, the runners had advanced to and passed the next base—even if the runner from 2B had crossed the plate—they get one base from TOP. I've seen that call blown many times. Just because these umpires ruled the wrong way and somebody else upheld it, the rules don't change.
__________________
greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Fri Apr 02, 2004, 12:28pm
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Speaking FED:
I think Hugo quoted the definitive ruling which is presented in the dead ball table in Section 5. which says:
SamC
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