so then...

[Little Jimmy]

A. Flex bats for DP
B. DP plays field for Flex

In either case, can coach sub for either one or both players at one time?

[Steve M]

Jimmy,
Yes - as far as your question goes on subs - just consider both the DP and the Flex another couple of starters. The coach may sub for one, the other, or both at any time.

Now, the Flex playing offense for the DP is not a sub - because the Flex was already in the game. It is an exit from the game by the DP, because the DP has left the game.

On the other side, when the DP plays defensively for the Flex, the Flex has left the game. Remember that this is not the same as the Flex still playing defense AND the DP playing defense for somebody else - that is perfectly legal with nobody having left the game.

[Edited by Steve M on Mar 14th, 2004 at 07:28 PM]

[TexBlue]

A. If the FLEX bats for the DP, the DP is gone, with one re-entry left. The lineup now has 9 players on it.

B. If the DP plays defense for the FLEX, the Flex has been subbed for. She has one re-entry left. The lineup has 9 players on it.


In either case the coach cannot sub for both players at the same time. Since one has left the game in both instances, there is only one player left to sub for. Now, what can happen is the coach lets the DP play for the FLEX, then reinstate the FLEX and sub for both players. The same thing for A. The Flex can bat for the DP, the DP left the game. The coach can then sub for both players, meaning he is also reinstating the DP and going back to 10.

The easiest way to remember it (and probably a little too simplistic ) you don't have to worry about any defensive changes between DP, FLEX and other players UNLESS THE DP PLAYS DEFENSE FOR THE FLEX OR THE FLEX BATS FOR THE DP

These are the only 2 instances where you have any changes in the lineup and you have to worry about it, as far as the DP/FLEX goes.

[Duke]

Just want to add that another defensive change that needs to be track with the DP is if the DP is playing def for either F1 or F2. The coach could utilize a CR for the DP in this case.

[Dakota]

Speaking ASA / NFHS.

Sometimes we make the DP/FELX rule more complicated than it is by listing how all the rules other rules are applied with DP/FLEX.

If you just stand back a moment and consider what hasn't changed, and then treat the DP and the FLEX like any other player under these rules that haven't changed, it is much simpler, IMO.

Examples of rules that haven't changed:

1. Substitution rules haven't changed. Such as, the sub is announced at the time she enters the game. Players get one reentry. Subs bat in the position of the player they are replacing.

2. A defensive position swap is not a substitution. The ONLY special case to remember here is when the DP plays defense for the FLEX. Otherwise, defensive players can move around all they want.

3. CR rules haven't changed. A CR is allowed for the last pither / catcher of record. It has nothing to do with DP/FLEX.

FLEX is a starting position (not a player - a position). It is kind of an overarching position - that is, the FLEX position doesn't "occupy" a specific fielding position (F1-F9), but it is a defensive position, and a specific player is named to start in that position. The FLEX has no batting order position. This means that if the FLEX is not playing defense, she has left the game. The FLEX may bat, but only in the DP's batting order position, and when the DP leaves the game.

DP is a starting position (again, not a player - a postion). A specific player is named to start in that position. The DP does occupy one of the batting order postions (B1-B9), but the position is more flexible than that, since the DP also occupies the defensive "position" of "F10 - benchwarmer" (my name). This means the DP may swap with any of the other fielder positions (F1-F9), and it is a defensive position swap and no one has entered or left the game - they still bat (EXCEPTIION for playing defense for FLEX - but that is because the FLEX has no batting position, and so if she is not playing defense, she has left the game).

As I said above, subs must always be announced at the time the substitution is made. No difference when DP/FLEX is used. No future / planned subs should be recognized. Of course, this allows for the possiblity of a sub for the DP being entered while the team is on defense (since the sub can play defense) and for a sub for the FLEX being entered while the team is on offense (would happen when the DP is due up).

[Little Jimmy]

In reply to Duke, Fed 9-1-5 states "the courtesy runner is NOT permitted to run as a courtesy runner for the Designated Player (DP), if the DP is batting for the pitcher or the catcher."

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Little Jimmy
In reply to Duke, Fed 9-1-5 states "the courtesy runner is NOT permitted to run as a courtesy runner for the Designated Player (DP), if the DP is batting for the pitcher or the catcher."

True, but that wasn't what he said. This rule applies to when the FLEX is F1 or F2. The DP "bats for" the FLEX, but that doesn't mean the DP gets CR rights. To have a CR, the actual pitcher / catcher must bat and get on base as a result of her at-bat.

Duke said if the DP is playing defense as (not batting for) the pitcher. In this case, the DP IS the pitcher, and she may have a CR.

[Little Jimmy]

I stand corrected.

[CecilOne]

Have you noticed how many of us respond to Dakota with "I stand corrected"?

However, I think "F10 - benchwarmer" can be confused with the variants that allow 10 players in the field or the slang reference to one who isn't playing as benchwarmer (like when I was FP, my last few years).

Anyway, eventually everyone should get used to what DP meand, just as we did with DH and EP. In the neantime, if we have to have an "F" id for the DP, how about FB for "Fielder-Bench" or FN for "Fielder-Nowhere"?