ASA Proposed Changes for SP game.

[IRISHMAFIA]

There are a few changes to terminate a teams at-bat upon the hitting of a HR in excess of the limit.

Moving Men's Major bases to 80' and all other men's to 70'.

Allow stealing at all levels of men's slow pitch

Move the pitcher's plate back to 53' or 55'

Numerous changes to return all balls to a maximum of 525 lb. compression. Reason: Losing teams who do not want to hit a "mush ball".

Eliminate the use of an 11" ball for women in the Co-ed game.

There are more changes to the Senior's game than I can type from reclassification of the divisions, home run allowances and even limiting the number of runs scored in an inning/game (which is being experimented with at the international level).

Eliminate the 6' height requirement for a pitch. Keep the 12' limit, but drop the low end.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

There are a few changes to terminate a teams at-bat upon the hitting of a HR in excess of the limit.

I'm unsure about this one. I know the players who play up would hate it.

Moving Men's Major bases to 80' and all other men's to 70'.
I have no problem with this though many complexes may have difficulty. However, if stealing is allowed, the bases MUST be extended.

Allow stealing at all levels of men's slow pitch

Don't like this one. I like stealing in the game, but too many games around the country are single-umpire games. I have worked games with stealing at the major level and can attest that it would be difficult enough to handle the calls with two umpires, let alone by yourself.

Move the pitcher's plate back to 53' or 55'

No problem with this one

Numerous changes to return all balls to a maximum of 525 lb. compression. Reason: Losing teams who do not want to hit a "mush ball".

If I've read different boards correctly, the other associations are leaning toward the 375. Of course, the number is only a maximum and doesn't prohibit use of a ball at a lower level.

Eliminate the use of an 11" ball for women in the Co-ed game.

Another one I like (also because it's mine). I know quite a few umpires who don't work the game because of the ball-changing issue (yeah, petty, I know). However, women use 12" balls from the time they are 12 years old through college. The ISF has the women hit the 12" ball. It would also cut the expenses of Co-ed teams in half when purchasing balls.

There are more changes to the Senior's game than I can type from reclassification of the divisions, home run allowances and even limiting the number of runs scored in an inning/game (which is being experimented with at the international level).

Too much at this time to formulate an opinion. I'm going to what and see how things was out in committee.

Eliminate the 6' height requirement for a pitch. Keep the 12' limit, but drop the low end.

The reason is that the umpires already have a remedy for a pitch that comes in too fast, so there is no need for a height restriction. Personally, I think it is just the opposite. By calling the IP, the umpire has even less of a focus point to determine the pitch's speed. Besides, if we start warning and removing pitchers who speed up just because they don't have to get the ball 6', the games will become excrutiatingly long.

Just my opinions.

[BigUmpJohn]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
There are a few changes to terminate a teams at-bat upon the hitting of a HR in excess of the limit.

Sounds interesting... a big penalty for long ball hitters. I don't think the players would like it too much, however. I think it would speed up the game.

Moving Men's Major bases to 80' and all other men's to 70'.

I like it. More running for the player in me, but it's fine. But, why not just go the distance and do 90'?

Allow stealing at all levels of men's slow pitch

No. I can see me working a single umpire game where one team will be "steal-happy". As you said, it just seems hard to watch all of the action by yourself.

Move the pitcher's plate back to 53' or 55'

No problem with this whatsoever. I feel with the bat technology, it seems logical with regards to safety. In some leagues, the plate is already back to 55'.

Numerous changes to return all balls to a maximum of 525 lb. compression. Reason: Losing teams who do not want to hit a "mush ball".

No opinion on this matter.

Eliminate the use of an 11" ball for women in the Co-ed game.

Don't do coed... don't really care. But, everyone should be treated equally, I guess.

There are more changes to the Senior's game than I can type from reclassification of the divisions, home run allowances and even limiting the number of runs scored in an inning/game (which is being experimented with at the international level).

I'm ok with the HR allowances but not with limiting the number of runs in an inning. How can you limit the number of runs in a game? Would that be like whoever gets to 35 is the winner?

Eliminate the 6' height requirement for a pitch. Keep the 12' limit, but drop the low end.

I like it, but my fear will be that SP will start to become FP. You'll have that one umpire who won't call an IP for a "fast" pitch because they don't want to and I could just see a possible snowball effect in a league. Maybe that's just me.

Will we see some of these changes and if so how long?

[greymule]

Changes I would make for the 2004 SP season:

All bats that fit the length, circumference, weight, and construction quality criteria would be legal. No criteria involving how fast balls come off the bat.

Ball would be 50 core, 525 compression.

Bases back to 60 feet. Pitcher's rubber in to 45 feet.

No restrictions on home runs.

Arc of the pitch would be 8 to 10 feet.

Unlimited foul balls.

No crash rule. Follow MLB.

No blood rule.

Umpire's fee $250 per 7-inning game, $50 per each extra inning.

Then, for the 2005 season . . .

[Edited by greymule on Nov 6th, 2003 at 04:24 PM]

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
There are a few changes to terminate a teams at-bat upon the hitting of a HR in excess of the limit.OK, anything to make it a game instead of a weightlifting contest.

Moving Men's Major bases to 80' and all other men's to 70'.Fewer baserunners.

Allow stealing at all levels of men's slow pitchI didn't like it last month, either.

Eliminate the use of an 11" ball for women in the Co-ed game.Doesn't matter much, but will reduce the number of players and teams.

Eliminate the 6' height requirement for a pitch. Keep the 12' limit, but drop the low end. I've always thought that players should be able to hit a "flat" pitch, but then we have to judge speed to make it Slow Pitch.

[Rick Vietti]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
There are a few changes to terminate a teams at-bat upon the hitting of a HR in excess of the limit.

On the rec league level and some tournaments we use equalizer rules. I think equalizer rules work well and should be incorporated versus terminating a teams at bat.

Moving Men's Major bases to 80' and all other men's to 70'.

Good rule change, especially in one umpire games, it will make calling outs easier.

Allow stealing at all levels of men's slow pitch.

Mixed feelings but since we do one umpire around here for SP our local rec department will probably local rule that out. I see it leading to hurt players and more arguments/ejections on the lower level games.

Move the pitcher's plate back to 53' or 55'.

Since I have seen pitchers start wearing helmets/face guards they will probably welcome the change.

Numerous changes to return all balls to a maximum of 525 lb. compression. Reason: Losing teams who do not want to hit a "mush ball".]

I know that we changed the core balls around here to a 40 core ball and the teams complain. But on the flip side I am here in Reno with an elevation of 4,500 ft. 150 pound E league players are jacking homeruns around here, do to the bats and the altitude. The funny thing is when they go down to the flat lands and play and they barely get it out of the infield.

Eliminate the use of an 11" ball for women in the Co-ed game."

Excellent, what a waste of time and energy to use the 2 different balls. I also see that it leads to more errors by the infield with the smaller balls. Over throws or just bad throws with switching the balls happens routinely.

Eliminate the 6' height requirement for a pitch. Keep the 12' limit, but drop the low end.

As long as they keep the pitching motion the same I do not have a problem. Low pitches are usually in the strike zone and anything that will get them to swing, I am in favor of.

[oppool]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

1. There are a few changes to terminate a teams at-bat upon the hitting of a HR in excess of the limit.

Leave it alone dont see any reason for change..

2. Moving Men's Major bases to 80' and all other men's to 70'.

Move all levels to 70'.

3. Allow stealing at all levels of men's slow pitch.

Leave it up in the Majors and maybe A. That way players have an option to play it or not

4. Move the pitcher's plate back to 53' or 55'.

Umpired a tournament this year that the PP was at 50' BUT a line was also drawn 6' behind and the pitcher could pitch anywhere in between those distances. I thought this worked quite well and gave the pitcher some extra option with the extra protection of the distance of they chose to use it

5. Numerous changes to return all balls to a maximum of 525 lb. compression. Reason: Losing teams who do not want to hit a "mush ball".]

In our league play we have over 300 teams each season and saw no loss in players or teams this year using the 375. The only cry I heard this year mostly from the Major teams was to outlaw the Miken Ultra II after about a half season with the 375 balls the players adapted...

6. Eliminate the use of an 11" ball for women in the Co-ed game."

I see +s and -s on this issue. Since most of Co-ed in my area is Rec type leagues it might cause a frustration in some of the Rec type girls. BUT it will make life much easier for the pitchers, so more strikes means more OUTS.

7. Eliminate the 6' height requirement for a pitch. Keep the 12' limit, but drop the low end.

I am all for it. It will take a little education of most SP umpires what to look for on excessive speed BUT will gave us more control and chance to call more STRIKES

JMOs

Don

[Tap]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

1. There are a few changes to terminate a teams at-bat upon the hitting of a HR in excess of the limit.

Terminating that 1/2 of the inning is fine. Keeping tha ball in the park is not that difficult.

2. Moving Men's Major bases to 80' and all other men's to 70'.

Sounds fine.

3. Allow stealing at all levels of men's slow pitch

I would only allow stealing in higher divisions with two umpires. No stealing in rec leagues.

4. Move the pitcher's plate back to 53' or 55'

Sounds good.

5. Numerous changes to return all balls to a maximum of 525 lb. compression. Reason: Losing teams who do not want to hit a "mush ball".

Terrible idea. The 375 compression ball can easily be hit 300 feet, especially since there are many hot bats that remain legal.

6. Eliminate the use of an 11" ball for women in the Co-ed game.

Sounds good.

7. There are more changes to the Senior's game than I can type from reclassification of the divisions, home run allowances and even limiting the number of runs scored in an inning/game (which is being experimented with at the international level).

No opinion, but I'm sure they are generally good changes.

8. Eliminate the 6' height requirement for a pitch. Keep the 12' limit, but drop the low end.

Bad idea, as it will encourage excessive speed pitches.

[Edited by Tap on Nov 8th, 2003 at 08:02 PM]

[greymule]

Does anyone remember when the SP bases were set at 60 feet?

Does anyone also remember when that distance seemed about right?

Is SP softball becoming SP baseball?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
Does anyone remember when the SP bases were set at 60 feet?

Does anyone also remember when that distance seemed about right?

Is SP softball becoming SP baseball?

Do you remember when players did not play so deep out of fear? Do you remember when 8 out of 10 plays at 1B were not bangers?

It's the equipment which controls the games anymore.

BTW, unless something drastic happens, the stealing at SP is heading down the drain. But you never know, Bernie still has a chance to sell it to the general council.

The 375 ball is pretty much here to stay. The change to revert to the 525 compression supposedly has been withdrawn.

The umpire's council reversed an earlier decision and decided to support the "end the inning due to a excess HR", but other committees are pushing against it. The reason for the change is that is seems that a mere "out" for excess HRs isn't harsh enough to persuade teams to play at the proper level.

My proposal of moving to the 12" ball for women in the co-ed game was basically attacked by a couple of women who claimed they personally were too far removed from their younger days to handle a 12" ball.

The other one about the starting time of the clock in the game lost out to the inability of the chair to understand the proposal.

Also, for anyone in the Central Atlantic Region, the regional clinic has come back to life and will take place the second weekend of March in the area of Washington's Dulles Airport.

[chuck chopper]

I'm with Grey Mule on the arc. We need more arc not less.
This is what seperates the game styles. Stealing will likely never happen in my local leagues. The longer base distances are welcome by me, however almost all the leagues use Elementary Schools. These darn fields are not stripped.
Some already have the bases pushing the outfield grass so a bunch of softball fields for adult play will have to be re-cut.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
The other one about the starting time of the clock in the game lost out to the inability of the chair to understand the proposal.

What's to understand? I hope this "chair" never has to conduct a rules clinic - how would s/he ever survive a question such as "Is the FLEX position what used to be the DP or the DEFO?"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota

What's to understand? I hope this "chair" never has to conduct a rules clinic - how would s/he ever survive a question such as "Is the FLEX position what used to be the DP or the DEFO?"

The part that is misunderstood is that in the rule (5.10, I think) is that it mentions where a time limit is presently used which is JO ball. Some of these softball people cannot get past the fact that those levels which use a time limit are included in the rule only as a guideline, not as a mandate. The levels, class and circumstances under which a time limit is applicable is part of the CODE!

I pointed out to these folks that point along with the fact that there is a pending rule change for Senior ball which calls for a "1 hour plus 1 inning" limit it the games. There is also code which permits TDs to take whatever action necessary under certain circumstances (usually bad weather) to able a tournament to reach a conclusion. This includes the possibility of imposing a time limit.

I then noted that the point of encouraging them to get the clock started sooner than the first pitch sets the pace of the game which, in turn, may avoid the necessity of imposing a time limit which is definitely going to upset someone.

Even though I think I may have given a couple on the NUS something to think about, it will probably not pass the general council as there are too many people who just don't get it. I'm surprised that I'm getting the impression that there are a few folks who don't think umpires know that much about the game. Nother particular, just a sense I'm getting from some people to whom I've talked.

My other change (eliminating the 11" ball from Co-ed play) has been withdrawn. Though I have been told that there are women playing their game with a 12" ball, it seems some just believe the feasibility of making this change is a joke. Oh well.

Also, have had the please of the company of fellow poster, Scott and the previledge of meeting another member of this board from Ft Worth, Jay G.

Rule and code changes will be presented and approved/rejected by the general council on Thursday.

BTW, since Bike has gone out of business, ASA Properties are working with a manufacturer to produce a new pair of shorts. They will be the same color as the ball bag and long pants, have a metal, not plastic zipper and a secured snap. There was a question of inside or outside pockets. Unfortunately, Walt Sparks ran over the quick question posed to the audience, I'm not totally sure what recommendation will be offered. Personally, I prefer the outside pockets as that is where I keep my line-up cardholder and brush when I have an excess number of balls in the bag. Which, BTW, the ball bag with elastic is no longer available.

Henry Pollard was also questioned about rain gear. A year and a half ago at the UIC clinic, Henry took a poll of the UICs asking if they had any interest in foul weather gear. I routinely have umpires asking me if there is any chance of getting waterproof jackets. Henry noted a difference between a jacket being water "proof" or water "repellant".
Nonetheless, he said something is in the works, but will probably not happen unless they can be sure there is a viable market and the equipment will be in demand.

Speaking of uniform, the issue of a single uniform being declared by ASA for championship play. As it is now, the UIC calls the hosting association to determine what uniform(color combinations) they wear locally and install that as the tournament uniform. I was surprised to hear the majority of those who did speak were heavily in favor of the powder over navy as the standard.

There is a development taking place to create what is basically an "on call" list of qualified umpires who are capable of traveling to a tournament on short notice. Preferably four-weeks, but notice which may be as short as 24 hours. Here is the catch. The umpire may be required to foot their own transportation bill. It is going to be designated as the HHE, Host Help Exchange. This is multifunctional. I will help tournaments and UICs which have an unanticipated influx of teams at the last minute while giving qualified umpires a chance to work a NT/NC that they may not have normally been able to attend.

Also, the 2005 Bi-annual UIC Clinic (2/4-6/05) had been designated as the Big Bad Merle Clinic. Merle Butler is reportedly retiring at this clinic.

It's late and that is all I can remember for now.

I'll try to include an update Thursday night of rule and code changes which pass.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Tomorrow is the big day.

Probabilities:

Shorthanded rule will not change.

An illegal runner will not be ruled out if discovered

The words "or not about to receive a thrown ball" concerning obstruction will be approved

Bases at the Men's Major level will be moved to 80'

Bases at other levels will not be moved to 70'

Preference of 325' fences for the Men's Major will be established, but not mandated at this time.

Pitching distance will remain at 50'

Mandating a double first base at all levels will be a toss-up.

The proposals changing of the compression back to 525 lbs have been withdrawn

If the manufacturers can produce a decent ball at the 300 lb level, they will become legal to use in the future

All of the proposals to end the inning and score no runs when a HR in excess of the limit is hit have been withdrawn

In the Senior game, excess HRs will be an out, not a single. (this may change)

Reducing the HR limit to 7 for the Men's A level was dropped

The minimal height of a pitch of 6' will not be eliminated

And finally, the proposal to allow stealing at all levels of men's SP will be fought....er, I mean discussed on the floor of the general council meeting with Bernie leading the way.

Remember, these are only observations drawn from the recommendations of the committees. It does not mean they will not be resurrected and/or changed on the floor during the general council meeting.