Case #1 for November Down Time

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Boy, how pathetic are we that the only active thread is one debating the closing of another?

Okay, I guess it is the slow time of the season and time for us to get out our imagination caps and come up with a couple of plays. Here's a "gimme":

R1 on first leaves the base at the time of the pitch, going off four giant steps (without saying "Mother may I".)

When the catcher receives the ball, R1 stays off the bag while F2 fakes the throw toward first several times. R1 just stands. F2 final throws the ball to F1 and R1 gradually starts dawdling back toward first.

Without quick pitching, F1 pitches the ball before R1 gets to first. BR hits the ball in the gap between F8 and F9. R1 never retouched first base and took off running at the time the ball was hit, ending up on third with the BR at second.

What's the call?

[CecilOne]

No pitch.

[Dakota]

No pitch, brace for the discussion.

The rule is ASA 6-10D.

[MD Longhorn]

Don't have the books handy, but why "No Pitch"? If there was no "quick pitch", don't you simply have the runner off base (which, depending on age / jurisdiction, could be an out - its an out here.)? Sounds like it was the dawdling that was the problem. The pitcher should not have to wait indefinitely for the slow batter to return to the base.

[SamNVa]

Mike,

The rule quoted (ASA 6-10-D Fastpitch) specifically states:

"No pitch shall be declared when the pitcher pitches before a runner has retouched her base after being legitimately off the base."

So as long as R1 is making a legitimate attempt to return to 1st, the pitcher has to wait.

SamC

[Dakota]

Originally posted by SamNVa
So as long as R1 is making a legitimate attempt to return to 1st, the pitcher has to wait.

If she is dawdling too slow, I might just reach a judgment that she has stopped & ring her up for a look back violation.

But, in ASA at least, unless you call a LB violation, the pitcher must wait for the runner to return.

[whiskers_ump]

And it does not say "how fast she must return", but
there are limits, or at least should be.

glen

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by SC Ump
Here's a "gimme"...

So maybe I lied and it's not a gimme.

NFHS (6-2-4) and NSA (6-8-c) both state that it is a "no pitch" if the runner has not retouched after a foul ball or dead ball. I was thinking that ASA's wording was for a foul ball, too, but I haven't looked at an ASA book for a few years.

In NFHS or NSA, I would have a "no call" in that no one did anything wrong.

[Roger Greene]

Then you'd better look at 8-8-10 (Fed change for 2002)

Section is entitled "Runner is not out"
"Art.10...The runner is not given sufficient time to return to a base. The runner will not be called out for being off base before the pitcher releases the ball. EFFECT: "No Pitch" will be called by the umpire and the runner(s) will be permitted to return to the proper base(s) without penalty."


Roger Greene

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by Roger Greene
Then you'd better look at 8-8-10...

Roger Greene

Excellent. Thanks.

With that in mind, I reviewed NSA again and found 8-9-h that said pretty much the exact same thing.

[MD Longhorn]

Define "sufficient time" in light of the fact that the runner was dawdling (meaning, to me, taking MORE than the necessary or "sufficient" time to get back to the base.) From the description of the play, the player was given "sufficient time" to get back, but failed to do so because of inactivity on her own part.

If you rule this one a no pitch, what if you extend it. Runner is halfway to 2nd, but begins returning to the base when the pitcher looks at her. She goes amazingly slowly, but does not waver in her consistent direction toward first. Do you have the pitcher waiting 1 minute, 2 minutes before the runner finally gets back?

Again - define "sufficient" in the context of this situation. Sounds "sufficient" to me.

[CecilOne]

Sufficient is the length of time it takes at the speed the runner is moving. It's distracting, awkward, not normal play, etc. but the rule as it stands. If you think it's a travesty or unsporting, call it.