Umpire Protocol

[WestMichBlue]

Standard protocol says that we do not discuss (nor get involved with) our partnerÂ’s call, unless requested by partner. We also have a responsibility to insure that the game is called fairly and that both teams have an equal opportunity to win. What do you do when these objectives are in conflict because a partner has made a mistake and refuses to ask for help?

For discussion purposes, let’s say game tied, bottom of 6th, R1 on 3B, 1 out. You are BU. B1 swings, hits F2’s glove, ball dribbles off bat into foul territory. PU has arm out to side, then announces “Dead ball, obstruction on catcher, batter is awarded 1st base, and runners move up.”

So R1 is waved home with go-ahead run and defensive coach is all over PU. Claims that R1 can’t go home, asks him to talk to partner. PU holds his ground; calmly says that he knows the rules, and thus there is no reason to discuss this with anyone else. Meantime you have another coach and players surrounding you asking for your opinion. You correctly state, “Not my call Coach, you have to talk to the PU” as you attempt to walk away.

What do you do?

WMB

[woolnojg]

WMB -
I see 2 issues here.
1st- judgement call by the PU. He made it, he lives with it.
If he asks for help, give it. If not, leave it.

2nd - Rules application error.
IF the incorrect awards are being made, go talk with the PU and fix it if possible. Low key discussion away from players & coaches.

[Andy]

CO is a judgment call, any discussion on that call should be held with the PU. Anyone that want to talk to me as the BU will be referred to the PU.

On the other hand, advancing the runner from 3B is a rule application that is incorrect. I agree with woolnojg, get the PU away from the players and coaches and get the base awards correct. If the PU refuses to budge, that part of the call is open for protest. I will support my partner and not tell the defensive coach that he has a protestable situation. He is going to have to figure that one out on his own.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
Standard protocol says that we do not discuss (nor get involved with) our partnerÂ’s call, unless requested by partner. We also have a responsibility to insure that the game is called fairly and that both teams have an equal opportunity to win. What do you do when these objectives are in conflict because a partner has made a mistake and refuses to ask for help?

For discussion purposes, let’s say game tied, bottom of 6th, R1 on 3B, 1 out. You are BU. B1 swings, hits F2’s glove, ball dribbles off bat into foul territory. PU has arm out to side, then announces “Dead ball, obstruction on catcher, batter is awarded 1st base, and runners move up.”

So R1 is waved home with go-ahead run and defensive coach is all over PU. Claims that R1 can’t go home, asks him to talk to partner. PU holds his ground; calmly says that he knows the rules, and thus there is no reason to discuss this with anyone else. Meantime you have another coach and players surrounding you asking for your opinion. You correctly state, “Not my call Coach, you have to talk to the PU” as you attempt to walk away.

What do you do?

WMB

To start, the only place I am walking is to my partner. If the situation is as you stated with the coach "all over PU", I will be covering my partner's back, and not even recognizing anyone's attempt to get me to act on the call. It is my job to keep him/her from being surrounded by anyone.

While doing this, I will make an attempt to get my partner's attention as I walk A (as in singular) representative from each team to another part of the field away from the others. If my partner is on the ball, s/he will ask me about the play and ruling. I will give him my view. If s/he ignores me, that's fine.

If a tournament, I will call for the UIC and get it corrected. If league play, I'll wish my partner good luck on the single umpire game when s/he comes back to complete the protested game.

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
What do you do?

For the pass couple of years, I have had a regular partner that I call with 50% of the time. We knew each other enough to know that if I was making direct eye contact with him, I had more information to give him and he would call me in if needed, or vice versa. I find that my other "non-regular" partners also usually get this hint fairly well when I am making direct eye contact from the field.

If not, I do not worry about it. In the example you gave, I would wait for the coach to formally protest and then I would feel justified speaking with my partner about it whether the partner asked or not. Most all umpiring manuals/written procedures that I have seen, state that if a protest is made the umpires should conference to discuss the specifics of the play to ensure all is proper.

[ChampaignBlue]

In our association once the protest is made we are required to get together without the help of any coach or player. Our policy is that if we lose a protest both blues forfeit their pay for the night to charity. As always plate has the final say but if I were BU on your play I'd be making the bet of I'll pay both if I'm wrong if you'll pay both if you're wrong.

[MD Longhorn]

In judgement calls, don't offer help...

But in a situation like this, the umpires have the responsibility to make sure the rules of the game are administered correctly. You are not "overruling" or "showing up" your partner if a rule is being administered unfairly or incorrectly. You are protecting the integrity of the game. If the umpire chooses to take offense when he/she is corrected on a rule interpretation, so be it - they shouldn't. But it's most important to get the rule enforced correctly.

Had one last year. PU had been umpiring for 30 years, and runs a clinic. Runner on 3rd, 1 out. The pitch comes in, bounces and is swung at for strike 3, and the catcher fields it cleanly. Batter takes off and makes it to 1B, as the catcher didn't want to allow the fast runner on third to try to score. PU rules that the pitch was not dropped, batter out.

Offense is in an uproar as I'm approaching her. I ask her if she ruled that the catcher caught the ball before it hit the ground - she says, "No, but she fielded it cleanly and didn't drop it." I try to remind her that she's got it wrong, but she won't budge. Offense protests (nearly drawing an ejection - yet another problem), and loses the game by 1. Needless to say, we had to replay from there later, and of course, PU was out of town that day.

We discussed the play between games (before the protest was even heard), and she insisted that since it wasn't dropped, it was not a "dropped 3rd strike". I kept reminding her that the rule does not say that if the catcher drops the ball, the batter can run... it's worded the other way around - (book not in front of me, so I'm hopefully not too far off here) - The batter is out if the catcher catches the 3rd strike before it hits the ground. She still doesn't back down and insists, "That's the way we teach it in my clinic." Scary.

Anyway - it's the responsibility of the umpires to correct a ruling error when they can.

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by mbcrowder
But in a situation like this, the umpires have the responsibility to make sure the rules of the game are administered correctly...

With the example you gave, it did you no good to come in and discuss it with your partner. You perhaps made your partner shut her mind off to suggestions; not only was she arguing with the coach, she had you ganging up on her, too.

[MD Longhorn]

The coach was not approaching anyone - he just said something along the lines of "No! That ball hit the ground, she gets first base!"

So you think I should have just sat there and let her screw it up? Or waited for a coach to approach? If someone has a rule wrong, you have a responsibility to see it fixed. I did not expect her to have a complete lack of knowledge of the rule - she's been doing this a while. I expected her to realize her error as soon as I mentioned it. I was rather surprised to find otherwise.

[WestMichBlue]

"So you think I should have just sat there and let her screw it up? Or waited for a coach to approach? If someone has a rule wrong, you have a responsibility to see it fixed"

That is exactly what this thread is all about, and I don't think that we have concensious yet. I made up a situation; you have a real-life situation. Judgment is not involved; rules application is.

The question is: "Do you interfer with a partner's call, if it is obviously incorrect (in your opinion), IF partner does not request your help?"

WMB

[chuck chopper]

The play is unimportant. Whether you & the other umpire have worked together before or not also unimportant. No matter what..we as a pair of umpires have got to do whatever is necessary to make the right call. Thus we may have to ruffle each others feathers on a difficult call that is only judgement and not rules application. Say the first baseman pulled his foot off the bag & BU doesn't see it. Coach or other player comes to you PU for help. If you the PU cannot get that BU to listen to you when you are telling him about the pulled foot, then BOTH of you look terrible.
Luckily I have always worked with a partner who is reasonable. However if the other Ump won't listen there really is nothing we can do at that moment. However someone earlier did mention that when you get home, call your assigner. Maybe the hard headed ump will get straightened out before you have to work with him again.
Lastly, don't wait to see if your partner is going to ask for your help (while he's being attacked), offer it proactively in a huddle off to the side without anyone else nosing in.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by mbcrowder
So you think I should have just sat there and let her screw it up?

As opposed to walking toward her and without solicitation saying, "No, she get's first, the ball hit the ground", yes.

Or waited for a coach to approach? If someone has a rule wrong, you have a responsibility to see it fixed. I did not expect her to have a complete lack of knowledge of the rule - she's been doing this a while. I expected her to realize her error as soon as I mentioned it. I was rather surprised to find otherwise.

I've seen umpires interject a (correct) ruling into another umpires call and it doesn't work well. It often creates a divide between the crew and certainly places both umpire's integrity in question.

If your partner doesn't want any help, that is her call. I'm not saying it is the right thing for her to do, but it is her option. Let the coach protest the game. If she still doesn't budge off the call, call the UIC if one is available or sign the scorebooks and move on.

[MD Longhorn]

I couldn't disagree more. If an umpire (experienced or not) has a rule wrong, you have a responsibility to fix it. Hurt feelings and ruffled feathers may be the side effect, but above all our charge is to enforce the rules correctly.

PS - in the situation described, I did not approach her saying "No, she gets first, the ball hit the ground." I approached her (before the uproar had a chance to get uproarious, and out of the earshot of anyone else) to ask her if she ruled her out because in her judgement the ball did NOT hit the ground. If she'd said that, then I'm going back to my position, and if asked by a coach, I'm saying partner did not rule that the ball hit the ground, and had a better position than either myself or the coach - and reminding them about arguing judgement calls. However, she did NOT have that. She had the right judgement, but the wrong rule interpretation.

To me, the scariest part is that she runs a clinic, and SPECIFICALLY discusses this situation, advising to rule the batter out. I assume there's a whole host of new or young officials in Denton Texas screwing this up on a daily basis.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
"Do you interfer with a partner's {rule application} call, if it is obviously incorrect (in your opinion), IF partner does not request your help?"

No. I say that knowing full well there may be specific circumstances where an umpire can point out his partner's error without appearing to be overruling him, or a well established partnership that will allow you to take certain liberties, but apart from that...

As bad as the incorrect call may be, things can get worse. It is not a matter of the partner taking offense (as mbcrowder suggested), but rather a matter of the ball teams losing respect for the umpire team operating as a team. If they perceive an opening, they will many times try to drive a wedge into it. They'll start coming to the other umpire for every disagreement they may have over the partner's call.

For this situation to work itself out requires the proper actions by all parties. The coach must ask the umpire making the call to seek help. Upon refusal by the umpire, the coach must inform the umpire he is lodging a formal protest. Even in leagues where all protests are to be settled on the field by the crew, this will cause an umpire conference to happen. Even with a formal protest process, the field crew should conference before the protest becomes official.

If the coach does not carry this to the protest stage, you should not officially intervene. Silent signals, such as the eye contact method, can be used to try to get your partner's attention, but you should do nothing overt (IMO) to cause the call to be reconsidered.

JMO...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by mbcrowder
I couldn't disagree more. If an umpire (experienced or not) has a rule wrong, you have a responsibility to fix it. Hurt feelings and ruffled feathers may be the side effect, but above all our charge is to enforce the rules correctly.

PS - in the situation described, I did not approach her saying "No, she gets first, the ball hit the ground." I approached her (before the uproar had a chance to get uproarious, and out of the earshot of anyone else) to ask her if she ruled her out because in her judgement the ball did NOT hit the ground.

And you think there is a difference in the player's and coach's eyes? If you intervene without being requested, you just as well scream it. If such an intervention results in a change of the call, even if it is correct, there will be more of an uproar than that experienced from the original bad call.

If she'd said that, then I'm going back to my position, and if asked by a coach, I'm saying partner did not rule that the ball hit the ground, and had a better position than either myself or the coach - and reminding them about arguing judgement calls. However, she did NOT have that. She had the right judgement, but the wrong rule interpretation.

You shouldn't be saying anything concerning the call to a coach. If the coach requires an explanation, the umpire who makes the call is the only person doing the talking.

To me, the scariest part is that she runs a clinic, and SPECIFICALLY discusses this situation, advising to rule the batter out. I assume there's a whole host of new or young officials in Denton Texas screwing this up on a daily basis.

That is scary, and it should be brought to the attention of the UIC in that area.

You may disagree with my method, but I can guarantee you one thing. If we are ever working together and you kick a ruling, we will talk and it will appear to be your idea whether it is or not. Whether you accept my input or not, any change or discussion is going to be your responsibility. If it is necessary to call the UIC to the field, I will tell him/her exactly what I tell you.

I will not return to my position, but will be standing next to you until all discussion is over and we are ready to play ball. You are my partner, at least for that game, and I will stand by you, right, wrong or indifferent. That doesn't mean I'm not going to do everything I can to convince you something is wrong, but I'm also going to do everything to keep your integrity intact. You can be the biggest screw-up or the best umpire in the world, but for that game we are partners and our first responsibility is to each other. It took a while, but I have learned there are many ways to take charge of a situation without placing your partner's abilities in question or screwing up a game.

Any other discussion concerning the play and the ruling can take place after the game is finished and you, me and Bud can have a nice conversation.