The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Sep 11, 2022, 10:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: North East, MD
Posts: 73
no pitch

In Referee mag for September, a case play is about an illegal pitch, followed by an early leave by a runner. The IP and early leave were both called, including "no pitch". The ruling said the runner is out (obviously) and "a ball is added to B3's count for the illegal pitch".

Doesn't "no pitch" mean that the pitch never happens, and so no effect except the runner being out, and any others remain at their base.
USA Softball rule 8.7.S
__________________
Formerly CecilOne
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.

Last edited by Cecil4; Mon Sep 12, 2022 at 04:56pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 12, 2022, 05:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fremont, NH
Posts: 1,322
March 2008

The question has been asked what to do when an illegal pitch is called in fast pitch and also a runner leaves before the release of the pitch. If an Illegal pitch is called and then a runner leaves before the pitch is released then the base umpire should also call dead ball. Since dead ball is called and no pitch happens the umpire should enforce the Illegal pitch, a ball on the batter and the runner leaving the base too soon will be called out. If there is more than one runner on base then the runner leaving the base too soon is out and all other runners are advanced one base because of the illegal pitch.

I'd say the "no pitch" would apply in the situation when a runner leaves early without other violations. In this sitch, both teams violated a rule. Unlike football (I guess) which has offsetting penalties and a replay of the down, softball immediately penalizes both offense and defense for their violatoins.
__________________
Ted
USA & NFHS Softball
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 13, 2022, 10:36am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,231
Is going through the motion without releasing the ball an IP?
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 13, 2022, 12:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: North East, MD
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Is going through the motion without releasing the ball an IP?
If it is a pre-release violation, like stepping on with hands joined, as opposed to replant on the delivery.
__________________
Formerly CecilOne
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 13, 2022, 04:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil4 View Post
If it is a pre-release violation, like stepping on with hands joined, as opposed to replant on the delivery.
Just wondering if you could sucker a runner into leaving early out by going through the entire motion then not releasing the ball.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 13, 2022, 04:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 1,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Ives View Post
Just wondering if you could sucker a runner into leaving early out by going through the entire motion then not releasing the ball.
There should be something in the rules to address that. In baseball, starting the pitching motion but not actually pitching is a balk with runners on base. I'd be surprised if starting and stopping was not also an illegal pitch in softball.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 13, 2022, 04:43pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: North East, MD
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
There should be something in the rules to address that. In baseball, starting the pitching motion but not actually pitching is a balk with runners on base. I'd be surprised if starting and stopping was not also an illegal pitch in softball.
It definitely is. USA 6A.3.A
__________________
Formerly CecilOne
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Sep 13, 2022, 11:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil4 View Post
It definitely is. USA 6A.3.A
But according to above posts it's still a leave early out so it's worth trying in some situations.
__________________
Rich Ives
Different does not equate to wrong
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 14, 2022, 11:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: North East, MD
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
March 2008

The question has been asked what to do when an illegal pitch is called in fast pitch and also a runner leaves before the release of the pitch. If an Illegal pitch is called and then a runner leaves before the pitch is released then the base umpire should also call dead ball. Since dead ball is called and no pitch happens the umpire should enforce the Illegal pitch, a ball on the batter and the runner leaving the base too soon will be called out. If there is more than one runner on base then the runner leaving the base too soon is out and all other runners are advanced one base because of the illegal pitch.

I'd say the "no pitch" would apply in the situation when a runner leaves early without other violations. In this sitch, both teams violated a rule. Unlike football (I guess) which has offsetting penalties and a replay of the down, softball immediately penalizes both offense and defense for their violatoins.
They referenced that ruling in the article, but I couldn't find it online, so thank you. Where did you access it?

Even though it is a published ruling, I do think it is illogical (bolded part).
Of course, the red part is no longer the rule.
__________________
Formerly CecilOne
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Sep 14, 2022, 01:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Fremont, NH
Posts: 1,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil4 View Post
They referenced that ruling in the article, but I couldn't find it online, so thank you. Where did you access it?

Even though it is a published ruling, I do think it is illogical (bolded part).
Of course, the red part is no longer the rule.
The reference comes from what was then ASA Plays and Clarifications from March 2008. The USA Softball website doesn't go back that far but I've been copying/pasting to a file I keep as a reference. (Actually the last Plays and Clarifications was in May of this year. We've gone the entire summer without new plays to discuss.)

Also, "the red part" is still true for Men's Fastpitch and Modified.
__________________
Ted
USA & NFHS Softball
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 22, 2022, 12:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: North East, MD
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu View Post
The reference comes from what was then ASA Plays and Clarifications from March 2008. The USA Softball website doesn't go back that far but I've been copying/pasting to a file I keep as a reference. (Actually the last Plays and Clarifications was in May of this year. We've gone the entire summer without new plays to discuss.)

Also, "the red part" is still true for Men's Fastpitch and Modified.
If you have April, 2010; would you send me a copy?
__________________
Formerly CecilOne
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Use of a slow pitch bat in a fast pitch game shanning Softball 8 Mon May 22, 2017 12:47am
ASA Slow Pitch/Fast Pitch Rules Differences IRISHMAFIA Softball 8 Fri Jan 13, 2012 07:27pm
Fast pitch - batter "catches" the pitch Dakota Softball 16 Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:06am
Bats: Slow-pitch v. Fast-pitch Blu_IN Softball 3 Tue Jul 12, 2005 12:12pm
Slow Pitch, Fast Pitch, Baseball...they are all the same... Bandit Softball 5 Mon Jun 14, 2004 07:00pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1