no pitch

[Cecil4]

In Referee mag for September, a case play is about an illegal pitch, followed by an early leave by a runner. The IP and early leave were both called, including "no pitch". The ruling said the runner is out (obviously) and "a ball is added to B3's count for the illegal pitch".

Doesn't "no pitch" mean that the pitch never happens, and so no effect except the runner being out, and any others remain at their base.
USA Softball rule 8.7.S

[Tru_in_Blu]

March 2008

The question has been asked what to do when an illegal pitch is called in fast pitch and also a runner leaves before the release of the pitch. If an Illegal pitch is called and then a runner leaves before the pitch is released then the base umpire should also call dead ball. Since dead ball is called and no pitch happens the umpire should enforce the Illegal pitch, a ball on the batter and the runner leaving the base too soon will be called out. If there is more than one runner on base then the runner leaving the base too soon is out and all other runners are advanced one base because of the illegal pitch.

I'd say the "no pitch" would apply in the situation when a runner leaves early without other violations. In this sitch, both teams violated a rule. Unlike football (I guess) which has offsetting penalties and a replay of the down, softball immediately penalizes both offense and defense for their violatoins.

[Rich Ives]

Is going through the motion without releasing the ball an IP?

[Cecil4]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Is going through the motion without releasing the ball an IP?

If it is a pre-release violation, like stepping on with hands joined, as opposed to replant on the delivery.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Cecil4

If it is a pre-release violation, like stepping on with hands joined, as opposed to replant on the delivery.

Just wondering if you could sucker a runner into leaving early out by going through the entire motion then not releasing the ball.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Just wondering if you could sucker a runner into leaving early out by going through the entire motion then not releasing the ball.

There should be something in the rules to address that. In baseball, starting the pitching motion but not actually pitching is a balk with runners on base. I'd be surprised if starting and stopping was not also an illegal pitch in softball.

[Cecil4]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

There should be something in the rules to address that. In baseball, starting the pitching motion but not actually pitching is a balk with runners on base. I'd be surprised if starting and stopping was not also an illegal pitch in softball.

It definitely is. USA 6A.3.A

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Cecil4

It definitely is. USA 6A.3.A

But according to above posts it's still a leave early out so it's worth trying in some situations.

[Cecil4]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

March 2008

The question has been asked what to do when an illegal pitch is called in fast pitch and also a runner leaves before the release of the pitch. If an Illegal pitch is called and then a runner leaves before the pitch is released then the base umpire should also call dead ball. Since dead ball is called and no pitch happens the umpire should enforce the Illegal pitch, a ball on the batter and the runner leaving the base too soon will be called out. If there is more than one runner on base then the runner leaving the base too soon is out and all other runners are advanced one base because of the illegal pitch.

I'd say the "no pitch" would apply in the situation when a runner leaves early without other violations. In this sitch, both teams violated a rule. Unlike football (I guess) which has offsetting penalties and a replay of the down, softball immediately penalizes both offense and defense for their violatoins.

They referenced that ruling in the article, but I couldn't find it online, so thank you. Where did you access it?

Even though it is a published ruling, I do think it is illogical (bolded part).
Of course, the red part is no longer the rule.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Cecil4

They referenced that ruling in the article, but I couldn't find it online, so thank you. Where did you access it?

Even though it is a published ruling, I do think it is illogical (bolded part).
Of course, the red part is no longer the rule.

The reference comes from what was then ASA Plays and Clarifications from March 2008. The USA Softball website doesn't go back that far but I've been copying/pasting to a file I keep as a reference. (Actually the last Plays and Clarifications was in May of this year. We've gone the entire summer without new plays to discuss.)

Also, "the red part" is still true for Men's Fastpitch and Modified.

[Cecil4]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

The reference comes from what was then ASA Plays and Clarifications from March 2008. The USA Softball website doesn't go back that far but I've been copying/pasting to a file I keep as a reference. (Actually the last Plays and Clarifications was in May of this year. We've gone the entire summer without new plays to discuss.)

Also, "the red part" is still true for Men's Fastpitch and Modified.

If you have April, 2010; would you send me a copy?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Is going through the motion without releasing the ball an IP?

I actually had this exact "sort of" situation in a high school game years ago. The pitcher began her pitching motion, and as she stepped, she slipped and fell. In doing so, she never releases the pitch. The runner on 2nd base, is on the base through the point at which the ball would have been released on a normal pitching motion, but leaves the base as the now falling pitchers had passes the "normal" release point.

My base umpire, who loved to be the center of attention, may he RIP, goes big with a dead ball, she is out for leaving early call. At the same time, I am calling an illegal pitch on the pitcher for not releasing the pitch and falling face first to the dirt. Within a few seconds we have both coaches screaming about the situation. Finally, I made the ruling that we have an illegal pitch, and runner did not leave "early" and the penalty for an illegal pitch should be applied. The defensive coach wasn't happey, but I was not going to penalize the base runner for his pitchers mistake of not being able to stay out of the way of her own feet. I didn't feel then, and I don't feel now, that the penalties in this situation would "offset".

I can see this being an area of gamesmanship. Let's say bases loaded, 2 outs. Pitcher, knowing a big power hitter is up, decides she is going to bait the runners into leaving early. He fails to release a pitch causing the runners to leave early. Yes, you penalize the illegal pitch, but if you also call the runner out, you have now allowed the pitchers actions to create the 3rd out of the inning.