NCAA Pitching Rule Change Guidance - Released today

[Manny A]

I'm not a fan of this rule change either. Seems to me that if more umpires enforced the old 2-second-pause rule, none of this would've been necessary. Who cares what the pitcher does beforehand? As long as she then gets on the pitcher's plate and then keeps her hands separated for at least two seconds before bringing them together, there should be no problem.

But I guess there was enough of a problem to create this change. So now she can't take any signal until she's in contact with the plate. I think it's going to be pretty straightforward to enforce the "no looking at the armband from behind the plate" prohibition.

What I really think is strange is that they will allow her to take a signal from the catcher while behind the plate. Why is that? If she can do that, and then be required to take the signal again while on the plate (or simulate taking it), that's the same as it was before. And there's still the possibility of the pitcher walking into her pitch, which is what this new change was supposed to prevent.

So if she refers to the armband to get the signal, she can't do it until she's on the plate. But she can take a signal from behind the plate if it comes from the catcher the old-fashioned way. Is that how I'm reading this?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I'm not a fan of this rule change either. Seems to me that if more umpires enforced the old 2-second-pause rule, none of this would've been necessary. Who cares what the pitcher does beforehand? As long as she then gets on the pitcher's plate and then keeps her hands separated for at least two seconds before bringing them together, there should be no problem.

Actually, it was the ambiguity of the interpretation from last fall, which said that a) you couldn't look at an armband while not in the pitching position, but b) if you did, it wasn't an illegal pitch if you did simulate once you got into the pitching position. This really isn't the umpire's doing, it was a select few coaches who complained (and I know one of them, and know exactly the moment she did), and this is hopefully the final stop in the (de)evolution of the rule and interpretation.

But I guess there was enough of a problem to create this change. So now she can't take any signal until she's in contact with the plate. I think it's going to be pretty straightforward to enforce the "no looking at the armband from behind the plate" prohibition.

Not exactly. She is only prohibited from looking at the signal arm band while not in the pitching position.

What I really think is strange is that they will allow her to take a signal from the catcher while behind the plate. Why is that? If she can do that, and then be required to take the signal again while on the plate (or simulate taking it), that's the same as it was before. And there's still the possibility of the pitcher walking into her pitch, which is what this new change was supposed to prevent.

So if she refers to the armband to get the signal, she can't do it until she's on the plate. But she can take a signal from behind the plate if it comes from the catcher the old-fashioned way. Is that how I'm reading this?

You are reading this correctly. This has EVERYTHING and ONLY to do with the signal arm bands. Don't over complicate this interpretation. As you say, she can receive a signal from catcher/coach while not in the pitching position (as long as she doesn't look at the armband), and then take/simulate the signal once in the pitching position (and we need to use this new phrasing, because she doesn't need to be "on" in the traditional "two feet" sense). But if she looks down at the signal arm band -- ILLEGAL. And hopefully she aborts the pitch.

Personally, I wish they would just make the signal arm band illegal.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Personally, I wish they would just make the signal arm band illegal.

Or the NCAA stop kowtowing to the coaches who are more about personal recognition than the players and the game.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Or the NCAA stop kowtowing to the coaches who are more about personal recognition than the players and the game.

Well, when 6/8 members of the rules committee are head coaches...

It's an interesting philosophical question though. Who owns the game and stewardship of its rules? The participants, the officials, or a third party?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Well, when 6/8 members of the rules committee are head coaches...

It's an interesting philosophical question though. Who owns the game and stewardship of its rules? The participants, the officials, or a third party?

I think USA has the better system. Hundreds of folks and the umpires only have about 15 votes (RUIC). But everything is broken down and discussed in multiple committees. There is even an opportunity to bring something that didn't get a committee approval to the entire convention to get a change accepted.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Actually, it was the ambiguity of the interpretation from last fall, which said that a) you couldn't look at an armband while not in the pitching position, but b) if you did, it wasn't an illegal pitch if you did simulate once you got into the pitching position. This really isn't the umpire's doing, it was a select few coaches who complained (and I know one of them, and know exactly the moment she did), and this is hopefully the final stop in the (de)evolution of the rule and interpretation.



Not exactly. She is only prohibited from looking at the signal arm band while not in the pitching position.



You are reading this correctly. This has EVERYTHING and ONLY to do with the signal arm bands. Don't over complicate this interpretation. As you say, she can receive a signal from catcher/coach while not in the pitching position (as long as she doesn't look at the armband), and then take/simulate the signal once in the pitching position (and we need to use this new phrasing, because she doesn't need to be "on" in the traditional "two feet" sense). But if she looks down at the signal arm band -- ILLEGAL. And hopefully she aborts the pitch.

Personally, I wish they would just make the signal arm band illegal.

Slick, these days, I am a conference coordinator; and sat in that meeting when VVK described the rule, discussed the enforcement. You are misunderstanding the meaning of e.g.; it means "for example".

This not solely about the armbands. It is about pitchers walking on to the pitcher's plate and starting to pitch without a pause. When the rule required a pause, there was no pause by pitchers, and umpires universally did NOT make them. Not in NCAA, not in high school, not in ASA/USA.

NCAA tried to do something about it. Since no one seemed to get "pause" to be a significant instant with no motion, a clear and obvious stop, they changed the rule to a two second pause. Surely that would be clear. But, no, as I preached to MY umpires full and complete pause, AT LEAST one FULL second+, we watched top conference games on TV (SEC, ACC, PAC12, B1G, and more) and no one, literally NO ONE, enforced even an obvious stop. I UIC'ed conference tournaments, showcases, watch ball everywhere at every level and every rules set; and pitchers step on and IMMEDIATELY bring their hands together, if not already in motion before the feet were on the pitcher's plate.

The NCAA committee did everything to give the pitchers an option, but stop long enough for batters to KNOW when the pitcher would begin a motion, but pitchers did not comply, umpires did not enforce, coaches crucified the very few that tried to enforce. Thus, the new rule.

The pitcher CANNOT take a signal anywhere but from the pitcher's plate; not from a catcher, not from a coach, not visually, not verbally; FOR EXAMPLE, cannot look at the arm band, but ALSO any other thing the umpire judges to be taking a signal. It is JUDGMENT what constitutes taking a signal, not a rule interpretation, so any question from a coach more than "what did she do" is challenging judgment, and should be stopped, or warned, or ejected.

Just like in baseball, a signal taken from anywhere but the pitcher's plate is a balk; NCAA Softball it is an illegal pitch. Just like in baseball, coaches cannot argue balks; NCAA Softball they cannot argue an illegal pitch.

This in a person-to-person conversation with VVK, in front of most of the conference coordinators in NCAA Softball. It is so simple you can hardly believe there aren't more ifs or buts.

[IRISHMAFIA]

How many batters have you seen caught off-guard last season because a pitcher did not hesitate for any reason?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Slick, these days, I am a conference coordinator [snip]

Steve, thanks for posting. As an official working hard to get more "P5" games, this insight to the meeting and intention of the recent interpretation is super useful and makes me glad that I started this thread. I'm not puffing myself up here, but I think I was the only one in the conference that I worked at the time who would make the two-second IP call. I took a lot of heat for calls my partners refused to make.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

How many batters have you seen caught off-guard last season because a pitcher did not hesitate for any reason?

Six or seven across ~40 NCAA games. Had one in fall ball this weekend, but I was on the bases and could not stop the game for the quick pitch. My partner got lit up when he called it a strike and the batter was still looking at her shoes.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Six or seven across ~40 NCAA games. Had one in fall ball this weekend, but I was on the bases and could not stop the game for the quick pitch. My partner got lit up when he called it a strike and the batter was still looking at her shoes.

So you had a weak partners that couldn't or wouldn't do his/her job?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The pitcher CANNOT take a signal anywhere but from the pitcher's plate; not from a catcher, not from a coach, not visually, not verbally; FOR EXAMPLE, cannot look at the arm band, but ALSO any other thing the umpire judges to be taking a signal.

Hmmm. Steve, this one is going to be interesting. I can foresee a situation where the catcher flashes hand signals to her pitcher while the pitcher is not on the plate, the PU cannot see the catcher doing this, but the BU can. So the BU calls the illegal pitch. That one will go over well with the defensive coach!

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Slick, these days, I am a conference coordinator; and sat in that meeting when VVK described the rule, discussed the enforcement. You are misunderstanding the meaning of e.g.; it means "for example".

This not solely about the armbands. snip

Steve, then how does the following, which is copied from an email sent to quite a number of people, reconcile with your conversation with VVK? And I believe that you have received the same email.

My emphasis.

If the pitcher takes a signal (looks at her arm band for a pitch signal) and she is not on the pitcher's plate, this is a violation of the taking the signal rule. The mechanic is: delayed dead ball signal - then if no further action occurs - dead ball signal and than verbalize..."That's a violation" - award a ball on batter and give new count - signal play ball. The coach may give a signal verbally or non-verbally to the pitcher and/or catcher before the pitcher takes her position on the plate without violation, provided that the pitcher then takes the signal (i.e. looks at her arm band or clearly looks to the catcher for the pitch selection) while she is in the required pitching position.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Steve, then how does the following, which is copied from an email sent to quite a number of people, reconcile with your conversation with VVK? And I believe that you have received the same email.

My emphasis.

I'm not sure the date of the email which you reference; didn't find it. The most current interpretation is dated 9/11/2019, and states simply:

Originally Posted by ncaasbre

10.2 9/11/19 Taking the Signal: The pitcher must take a signal while in the pitching position.
Taking a signal from behind the pitcher’s plate (e.g., looking at the signal arm band) is illegal since the pitcher is not in the pitching position. The result is an illegal pitch.

Edited to add: This interpretation is one of 3 posted of that date on the Central Hub; undergarments, defining the pitching position, and this. There is nothing else I'm finding that contradicts that.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I'm not sure the date of the email which you reference; didn't find it. The most current interpretation is dated 9/11/2019, and states simply:



Edited to add: This interpretation is one of 3 posted of that date on the Central Hub; undergarments, defining the pitching position, and this. There is nothing else I'm finding that contradicts that.

sent you a PM. You can share if you feel it is appropriate.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I'm not sure the date of the email which you reference; didn't find it. The most current interpretation is dated 9/11/2019, and states simply:



Edited to add: This interpretation is one of 3 posted of that date on the Central Hub; undergarments, defining the pitching position, and this. There is nothing else I'm finding that contradicts that.

Steve,
New video posted today. It clears the air a bit, in that two specifics are not allowed while not in the pitching position: 1) gathering wristband information and 2) receiving information from the catcher. And yes, the base umpires can call either one. However, receiving verbal signals from the coach and/or non-verbals from the coach while not in the pitching position are not a violation.

Let's remember this is NCAA only.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Let's remember this is NCAA only.