Blew the call, nobody knows...

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You should know by now that is not a condition of a catch. The OP clearly states that in his judgment, the ball was caught.

Mike, how do you arrive at that conclusion? It's right there in the USA definition; page 19.

(Ignoring for the sake of discussion the OP's judgment that it *was* a catch)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Mike, how do you arrive at that conclusion? It's right there in the USA definition; page 19.

Point out where is states a release MUST be voluntary

[teebob21]

Rule 1 Catch/No Catch Section A-1?

I already posted the line verbatim in this thread....something is going wooosh over my head here on this line of thought.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Rule 1 Catch/No Catch Section A-1?

I already posted the line verbatim in this thread....something is going wooosh over my head here on this line of thought.

I think we are talking about whether "and/or" necessarily means "and".

[teebob21]

Fair enough. I'm a bit of a "strict constructionist" when I play Rulebook Lawyer, so I sometimes read the book differently than others. When one rule is not perfectly clear, sometimes another rule builds on it to make it more clear to me. I prefer to use other book rules vs. coming up with something based on logic to clarify....that's the job of rules interpreters/the national office.

My assertion/interp of the Catch definition for USA is A-1 is (paraphrased) "the fielder must hold the ball long enough to prove control, and if the ball is released before control is evident, then that release must be voluntary." (i.e., on the transfer to a throw).

Section B-1 goes into this further, stating it is not a catch if, while gaining control, drops the ball as a result of falling to the ground. Now, I'm not going into dangerous NFL territory on "complete the catch thru the process of going to the ground"...but if B-1 says your catch process has to survive the ground, then IMO a ball popping out of a glove that hits the ground during the process of the catch....is no catch, absent some secondary playing action by the fielder.

My 0.02c, and I'm happy to be wrong if there's rule support, rather than debating the possible intended purpose of "and/or" as "and must" or something completely different.

[chapmaja]

This reminds me of a play from several years ago where I almost had to toss the 1b coach.

R1 on first. B2 hits a ground ball to short where F6 bobbles the ball. F6 gains possession and dives towards 2nd base while in possession. Her knee is touching the base when she attempts to tag R1. During the tag attempt, which occurred after F6 touched the base with her knee in possession of the ball, the ball came out. I have an out call on the force. 1b coach is not happy and refuses to listen to the explanation he is seeking. Finally I had to walk away and I heard my PU telling him that if he hears anything else, he is gone. Never heard a peep the rest of the day from him.