Illegal Pitch

[Blueplate]

Nfhs has new rule on an illegal pitch, in that this year only a ball is awarded the batter. But what if,

R1 on 1st, B2 batting. R1 is going on the pitch. Pitcher comments an illegal pitch in her wind-up, and PU calls a Delayed Dead Ball. In doing so the pitcher stops her delivery. R1 has made it to 2nd.

Are there not now 3 fouls?...The illegal pitch(1) failure to deliver the pitch (2)and runner off base while pitcher has the ball in the circle(3)

How do you rule on this?

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Blueplate

Nfhs has new rule on an illegal pitch, in that this year only a ball is awarded the batter. But what if,

R1 on 1st, B2 batting. R1 is going on the pitch. Pitcher comments an illegal pitch in her wind-up, and PU calls a Delayed Dead Ball. In doing so the pitcher stops her delivery. R1 has made it to 2nd.

Are there not now 3 fouls?...The illegal pitch(1) failure to deliver the pitch (2)and runner off base while pitcher has the ball in the circle(3)

How do you rule on this?

1)Signal delayed dead ball for the Illegal Pitch. No Pitch is necessary for an Illegal Pitch.

2) Call no pitch for the Look Back violation

3) Runner is out on the Look Back rule call

4) Award a ball to the batter for the Illegal Pitch.

Because the runner violated the Look Back rule there is no option for the Offensive Coach for the Illegal Pitch.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

1)Signal delayed dead ball for the Illegal Pitch. No Pitch is necessary for an Illegal Pitch.

2) Call no pitch for the Look Back violation

3) Runner is out on the Look Back rule call

4) Award a ball to the batter for the Illegal Pitch.

Because the runner violated the Look Back rule there is no option for the Offensive Coach for the Illegal Pitch.

Ugggh... no, this is not a look back rule violation. It's a violation of the rule that requires the batter to maintain contact with the base until the ball is pitched. (8-6-18 not 8-7-anything)

I believe there's an exception to the rules specifically for leaving early that is caused by an illegal pitch though I couldn't find it at first glance in my book.

[RKBUmp]

Somewhere USA has a case play stating if the IP is what caused the runner to leave the base before the release of the pitch, then the leaving early is ignored. NFHS on the other hand has stated that it is the runners responsibility to maintain contact with the base until the release of the pitch.

I have a problem with NFHS's statement in that a pitcher can intentionally not release the ball to cause the runner to leave before the release of the ball and the defense gets rewarded with an out for only the cost of a ball to the batter.

[dlsumpntx]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Somewhere USA has a case play stating if the IP is what caused the runner to leave the base before the release of the pitch, then the leaving early is ignored. NFHS on the other hand has stated that it is the runners responsibility to maintain contact with the base until the release of the pitch. I have a problem with NFHS's statement in that a pitcher can intentionally not release the ball to cause the runner to leave before the release of the ball and the defense gets rewarded with an out for only the cost of a ball to the batter.

Can you provide a reference for the NFHS statement?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Blueplate

Nfhs has new rule on an illegal pitch, in that this year only a ball is awarded the batter. But what if,

R1 on 1st, B2 batting. R1 is going on the pitch. Pitcher comments an illegal pitch in her wind-up, and PU calls a Delayed Dead Ball. In doing so the pitcher stops her delivery. R1 has made it to 2nd.

Are there not now 3 fouls?...The illegal pitch(1) failure to deliver the pitch (2)and runner off base while pitcher has the ball in the circle(3)

How do you rule on this?

The "no pitch" overrides the "illegal pitch", ball dead immediately, runner out.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The "no pitch" overrides the "illegal pitch", ball dead immediately, runner out.

That's only true if the LBE violation happens before the IP. I know that the original post first mentions that R1 is going on the pitch, and then says the pitcher commits the IP in her wind up. If that's the sequence of how things happened, R1 left VERY early, and the No Pitch does make everything else moot.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

That's only true if the LBE violation happens before the IP. I know that the original post first mentions that R1 is going on the pitch, and then says the pitcher commits the IP in her wind up. If that's the sequence of how things happened, R1 left VERY early, and the No Pitch does make everything else moot.

What's an LBE?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What's an LBE?

Left the base early. Just my shorthand; not necessarily a recognized acronym.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

That's only true if the LBE violation happens before the IP. I know that the original post first mentions that R1 is going on the pitch, and then says the pitcher commits the IP in her wind up. If that's the sequence of how things happened, R1 left VERY early, and the No Pitch does make everything else moot.

As you said, if the LBE occurred first, the dead ball kills everything.

If the IP occurred first, the DDB is delayed to see the result of the play and the result of the play is runner out for leaving early. The "no pitch" ruling negates the IP, just as it would on a legal pitch.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The "no pitch" ruling negates the IP, just as it would on a legal pitch.

No you would impose both penalties the IP is still an IP Delayed dead ball with or without the pitch.

Once you kill the play for LBE you have killed all plays and have to enforce the penalties

[DaveASA/FED]

I believe both NFHS and USA Softball would enforce both penalties, if the illegal pitch came first. IF the runner leaving early came first it is an immediate dead ball so you could not have an illegal pitch after that....because the ball is dead!