Two runners at a base

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

OK, still ignoring the abandonment difference and the passing or not;
does the bolded apply?

If both are touching the base one of them is out when tagged. Force play or not determinmes who.

[BretMan]

FWIW...here is the MLB case play that covers this.

PLAY—Runners on second base and third base with one out. The runner from third base (i.e., the lead runner) makes an advance toward home and is caught in a rundown between third base and home plate. Believing the lead runner will be tagged out, the runner at second base (i.e., the trailing runner) advances to third base. Before being tagged, the lead runner runs back to and beyond third base toward left field. At this time, the trailing runner has passed the lead runner as a result of the lead runner’s actions. As a result, the trailing runner is out and third base is unoccupied. The lead runner is entitled to third base if he returns to touch it before he is out, see Rule 5.06(a)(1), unless he is declared out for abandoning the bases.

This interpretation was just added a couple of years ago, in response to a similar play and debate about whether or not running past third base like that constitutes "passing a runner". The case play clarifies that it does.

[jmkupka]

Sooo... if this ever happens in our sport, can we use this as a guideline? Not to say that we'd quote this case play in explaining our call, but do we have a leg to stand on under our rules?

And:
Is the fielder with the ball expected to continue chasing the runner beyond 3B into left field? That was my earlier point, that the base path that is established by the pursuit is a straight line between where the runner is and 3B.
3 feet beyond 3B is out of the path, no?

Also and:
If Sanchez steps back off the bag when Stanton trots on by into left field, is he no longer considered to have passed Stanton? If he is, how far back would he have to step to not be called out?

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Sooo... if this ever happens in our sport, can we use this as a guideline? Not to say that we'd quote this case play in explaining our call, but do we have a leg to stand on under our rules?

Of course we wouldn't cite this case play. But I wouldn't have any problem, if two softball players did this same thing, judging it as "passing". I've never seen any interpretation that says it wouldn't be.

I'm thinking of "passing" as which runner is advanced closest to home. Once the lead runner goes past third base like that, then the trailing runner is closer to home.

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Is the fielder with the ball expected to continue chasing the runner beyond 3B into left field? That was my earlier point, that the base path that is established by the pursuit is a straight line between where the runner is and 3B.
3 feet beyond 3B is out of the path, no?

Again, no problem with a base path violation, so long as a tag is being attempted. The lead runner is now between second and third base. As such, his base path is a line to either of those two bases. Straight up the foul line, toward the outfield and away from third base, is not the runner's legal base path.

Originally Posted by jmkupka

If Sanchez steps back off the bag when Stanton trots on by into left field, is he no longer considered to have passed Stanton? If he is, how far back would he have to step to not be called out?

Not sure why you'd think that. First, the passing violation had already occurred, so the trailing runner is already out. Nothing he can do at that point to change that.

If he did step off, now both runners are between second and third base. Which one is most advanced toward home? Or, which one is closest to third base? That should tell you which is the most advanced runner. If that's the trailing runner, then you have a violation.

[jmkupka]

Don't want to belabor the point (too late for that), but say the following runner backs away 5 feet from the bag, as the lead runner is overrunning 3B into left field.

Lead runner is out of the base path, and out.
We wouldn't be calling the following runner out as well, would we?

And if not, how close would she have to be (to the bag) in order to be called out?

3 feet, because that's the distance the lead runner has to overrun to be considered out of the path?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by BretMan

If he did step off, now both runners are between second and third base. Which one is most advanced toward home? Or, which one is closest to third base? That should tell you which is the most advanced runner. If that's the trailing runner, then you have a violation.

Here I think I disagree with you. If the trailing runner is between second and third, I'm not considering him to have passed a runner who is anywhere on the 3rd base line. Regardless of who is closer to third when two players are between 2nd and 3rd, I'm determining passing by finding the player with the shorter perpendicular distance from the 3rd base line.