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Old Thu Apr 05, 2018, 11:27pm
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Is a batter's lost shoe detached offensive equipment?

R1 on first, no outs. BR comes to the plate with an untied shoe. BR hits a soft base hit to left-center. While running to first, she loses the untied shoe between first and home.

BR rounds the bag at 1B aggressively and F8 fields the ball. F8 overthrows F3 at 1B while R1 is advancing to 3B. The ball hits the dugout fencing and rebounds off, hitting the shoe, causing F2 to chase the ball down in foul territory off the shoe deflection. (*) R1 rounds 3B and scores following a throw from F2 to F1 covering; single-shoe BR reaches 2B but is put out at 3B.

Third World Warning. This play actually happened, although in my game, there was no play at home or 3B. Everything after the (*) is hypothetical.

Is the shoe detached offensive equipment? Does play stand or are we playing under a delayed dead ball after the ball hits the shoe? If DDB, where do we place the runners and are there any outs? Is there a difference in this scenario between USA/Fed/NCAA?
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Old Fri Apr 06, 2018, 01:58am
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Coming from baseball only, I don't think this is any different than a bat discarded laying there, or thrown catcher's helmet.

But I will have B1 tie their shoes from now on.

Side note from doing basketball for the first time in 15 years ... what is the average time a kid's shoe stays tied? 10 minutes?
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Old Fri Apr 06, 2018, 07:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
R1 on first, no outs. BR comes to the plate with an untied shoe. BR hits a soft base hit to left-center. While running to first, she loses the untied shoe between first and home.

BR rounds the bag at 1B aggressively and F8 fields the ball. F8 overthrows F3 at 1B while R1 is advancing to 3B. The ball hits the dugout fencing and rebounds off, hitting the shoe, causing F2 to chase the ball down in foul territory off the shoe deflection. ... snip ...

Is the shoe detached offensive equipment? Does play stand or are we playing under a delayed dead ball after the ball hits the shoe? If DDB, where do we place the runners and are there any outs? Is there a difference in this scenario between USA/Fed/NCAA?
USA & NFHS
If the ball is blocked, it is IDB, not DDB.

Removed incorrect opinion.
See below "any part of the uniform which inadvertently became detached during the ongoing play to be part of the field and not available for a blocked ball or int call "
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Last edited by CecilOne; Fri Apr 06, 2018 at 10:42am.
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Old Fri Apr 06, 2018, 10:13am
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This really boils down to the definition of "blocked ball", and how loose equipment is handled. When it comes to loose equipment that belongs to the offense, that is really limited to equipment that is not involved in the game. So a loose bat in front of a dugout, or a loose glove sitting in foul territory by the offensive team's bullpen, etc., would be susceptible to a blocked ball call.

But if the equipment is involved in the game, then a ball touching that equipment is not considered blocked unless the offense does something intentional. So when the batter discards her bat, or a runner's batting helmet flies off while running the bases, those aren't considered loose equipment. I would say the same applies to a runner's shoe that inadvertently comes off.
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Old Fri Apr 06, 2018, 10:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
R1 on first, no outs. BR comes to the plate with an untied shoe. BR hits a soft base hit to left-center. While running to first, she loses the untied shoe between first and home.

BR rounds the bag at 1B aggressively and F8 fields the ball. F8 overthrows F3 at 1B while R1 is advancing to 3B. The ball hits the dugout fencing and rebounds off, hitting the shoe, causing F2 to chase the ball down in foul territory off the shoe deflection. (*) R1 rounds 3B and scores following a throw from F2 to F1 covering; single-shoe BR reaches 2B but is put out at 3B.

Third World Warning. This play actually happened, although in my game, there was no play at home or 3B. Everything after the (*) is hypothetical.

Is the shoe detached offensive equipment? Does play stand or are we playing under a delayed dead ball after the ball hits the shoe? If DDB, where do we place the runners and are there any outs? Is there a difference in this scenario between USA/Fed/NCAA?
Based on USA RS 17, I would consider any part of the uniform which inadvertently became detached during the ongoing play to be part of the field and not available for a blocked ball or int call
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Old Fri Apr 06, 2018, 10:19am
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I should add that in the NCAA, there is an actual rule, 9.7, that defines Equipment Blocked Ball. It says:

Quote:
9.7.1 No loose equipment (that is, gloves/mitts, hats, helmets, jackets, balls, on-deck batter’s bats), miscellaneous items, or detached parts of a player’s uniform, other than that being legally used in the game at the time, should be within playable territory as it could cause a blocked ball. Official equipment that may be within playable territory with no effect includes the batter’s bat, the catcher’s mask or helmet, umpire paraphernalia, and any helmet that has inadvertently fallen off an offensive or defensive player during the course of play.
There is no mention of a player's shoes as official equipment that would have no effect on a ball that contacts it. So in NCAA play, your scenario would result in a blocked ball. I guess they feel that shoes be designed to not come off a player's feet.
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Old Fri Apr 06, 2018, 10:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post

There is no mention of a player's shoes as official equipment that would have no effect on a ball that contacts it. So in NCAA play, your scenario would result in a blocked ball. I guess they feel that shoes be designed to not come off a player's feet.
I seriously doubt the pieces of equipment listed are not meant to be specific. What is the difference between a helmet inadvertently coming off an active runner and a shoe inadvertently coming off an active runner?

Then again, considering the source of the list, you never know
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Old Fri Apr 06, 2018, 01:06pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
I seriously doubt the pieces of equipment listed are not meant to be specific. What is the difference between a helmet inadvertently coming off an active runner and a shoe inadvertently coming off an active runner?

Then again, considering the source of the list, you never know
You got to remember this is NCAA he is talking about. The same ones that allowed a pitcher to tape an odor eater to her shoe and call it a toe plate so she wouldn't get called for leaping. The rule book didn't expressly forbid it, so therefore it was legal. Took them a week or so to come to their senses.
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Old Fri Apr 06, 2018, 01:25pm
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Originally Posted by rkbump View Post
you got to remember this is ncaa he is talking about. The same ones that allowed a pitcher to tape an odor eater to her shoe and call it a toe plate so she wouldn't get called for leaping. The rule book didn't expressly forbid it, so therefore it was legal. Took them a week or so to come to their senses.
Tried to attach just a smiley face, but I kept getting auto-corrected.
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Last edited by Manny A; Fri Apr 06, 2018 at 01:28pm.
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