NCAA Softball 2 Out indicator

[umpjim]

So do some or all softball codes signal time play when any of the conditions are met or only when the conditions are met with a game ending situation? Do you signal it with 2 outs and R1? As to @teebob21 signal, what does your BU do differently when that signal is given?

[teebob21]

I've never seen it in any manual saying to do what I did. I did it because I thought it was the right time to make sure the crew was on the same page. With R1 and 2 outs, we'd give the signal as a matter of routine.

As far as what does BU do differently in a game-winning time-play scenario vs. a "regular" one, I don't know. In those scenarios, we still have the same responsibilities as we do on every pitch. One thing I might do if I was BU in that scenario would be to try to sneak a super fast peek in the direction of home if we were going to have a potential tag play. Not long enough to lose focus of my responsibilities, and not to take over my partner's call, but just a peek to know he was at least watching and our time-play call will be credible.

[CecilOne]

There at no such signals in USA or NFHS. Just mental pre-pitch.

[IRISHMAFIA]

With the exception of a possible rotation in a 3/4 umpire system, why would anyone other than the PU need to be aware of this situation?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

With the exception of a possible rotation in a 3/4 umpire system, why would anyone other than the PU need to be aware of this situation?

For the same reason base umpires should be aware of the count on every pitch, IMO. Each official should be aware of what the game situation is, even if they don't have any responsibility whatsoever for that potential call.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

With the exception of a possible rotation in a 3/4 umpire system, why would anyone other than the PU need to be aware of this situation?

Two umpire system, two outs, R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. B5 singles to left center; as R1 will appear to score, F7 throws directly to 3rd to make a play on advancing R2.

With no "play" at home, PU moves from the holding zone up to 3rd to make the call, as BU picks up trailing BR. R1 is coasting home (with no play being made), as PU rings out R2 at 3rd. Did the run score?

PU has his back to the plate making the call at 3rd. We are all hoping BU realizes there is a timing play here and can make that call (run scored or did not); I see no downside to a prepitch signal that reminds BU this might depend on him paying attention outside his immediate calling area!!

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Two umpire system, two outs, R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. B5 singles to left center; as R1 will appear to score, F7 throws directly to 3rd to make a play on advancing R2.

With no "play" at home, PU moves from the holding zone up to 3rd to make the call, as BU picks up trailing BR. R1 is coasting home (with no play being made), as PU rings out R2 at 3rd. Did the run score?

PU has his back to the plate making the call at 3rd. We are all hoping BU realizes there is a timing play here and can make that call (run scored or did not); I see no downside to a prepitch signal that reminds BU this might depend on him paying attention outside his immediate calling area!!

With two outs and RISP wouldn't the time play signal be given in SB? In BB it would and PU would not leave HP. But would you give a time play signal for every combination of runners and outs that would apply?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Two umpire system, two outs, R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. B5 singles to left center; as R1 will appear to score, F7 throws directly to 3rd to make a play on advancing R2.

With no "play" at home, PU moves from the holding zone up to 3rd to make the call, as BU picks up trailing BR. R1 is coasting home (with no play being made), as PU rings out R2 at 3rd. Did the run score?

PU has his back to the plate making the call at 3rd. We are all hoping BU realizes there is a timing play here and can make that call (run scored or did not); I see no downside to a prepitch signal that reminds BU this might depend on him paying attention outside his immediate calling area!!

Okay, what is BU's mechanics on this play?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by umpjim

With two outs and RISP wouldn't the time play signal be given in SB? In BB it would and PU would not leave HP. But would you give a time play signal for every combination of runners and outs that would apply?

The time play signal is supposed to be given in NCAA play with two outs anytime a runner is on (2 man). Speaking ASA/NFHS, the time play signal isn't even an official thing. This isn't baseball, so the PU responsibilities don't change: we've still got primary coverage on the play at 3B on the first throw from the outfield in all codes.

We don't typically give the signal unless there are two outs (NCAA), but I did it in as in the post above because, as I said, either team could potentially win on any given pitch.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, what is BU's mechanics on this play?

IMO, same as always but with a reminder to keep his head on a swivel. Steve's scenario presents yet another example of where by-the-book 2-man mechanics can't cover everything, no matter which manual one might be following on the field.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Two umpire system, two outs, R1 on 2nd, R2 on 1st. B5 singles to left center; as R1 will appear to score, F7 throws directly to 3rd to make a play on advancing R2.

With no "play" at home, PU moves from the holding zone up to 3rd to make the call, as BU picks up trailing BR. R1 is coasting home (with no play being made), as PU rings out R2 at 3rd. Did the run score?

PU has his back to the plate making the call at 3rd. We are all hoping BU realizes there is a timing play here and can make that call (run scored or did not); I see no downside to a prepitch signal that reminds BU this might depend on him paying attention outside his immediate calling area!!

I had a similar play in an ASA game a couple of years ago in a slow pitch championship game. We were in the bottom of the 11th inning with 1 out and bases loaded. I was on the bases. The batter hit a fly ball to F7 who was not very deep. All runners were tagging up.

I started coming inside and watched R2 tag at second. I really paid no attention to R3 on first. PU started coming up the line a bit to view the catch. When he noticed that F7 was going to throw to third base instead of home, he moved right up the line for the play at third trying to retire R2.

At that point I realized that I had to watch R1 from third to see if he made it home before an out was recorded at third base. It turned out the PU called R2 safe at third, so the issue was moot.

I was coming inside, but I was still what I considered a long way from HP in the event I needed to make a call on a run scoring or not.

Glad it didn't come to that. I'm sure there would have been a lot of "discussion".

In retrospect, I wondered why R2 kept trying to advance to third. Had he been thrown out, the run might not have scored. He could have drawn a throw and stopped while the winning run crossed the plate. The only possible reversal of that run scoring would be if R1 left early.