Protection Between Bases with No other Runners

[Manny A]

Just to add, this happened to me in a D1 game a couple of years ago, and I was told by my partners that I blew the call. R1 at first, and the batter hits a single up the middle. R1 tries to go corner to corner, and F8's throw to F5 is just off-line toward the home plate side of third base. F5 dives for the ball as R1 slides headfirst into third. She sees the ball get past F5 toward the dugout, so she pops up and starts heading for home, whereupon she trips over F5 who is still on the ground in the base path. Out comes my arm.

R1 gets up, sees that F1 had backed up the throw, and heads back to third base. IMJ, R1 would have never made it home, so if she had tried and got tagged out easily, I would've told my PU partner that she should return to third. But then the third base coach (and team's head coach) tells his runner, "Go home; that was obstruction!" So she takes off for home at a slow jog. F1, still with the ball, runs over and tags R1, and I ruled her out.

Problem was, I had a senior moment, and I explained to the coach that the reason I called her out was because F1's play on her was a subsequent play (I plumb forgot that the subsequent play rule was specifically for another runner, not the obstructed runner). He rightfully argued that his runner was protected between third and home, and I said her protection went away when she allowed a subsequent play to be made on her.

Both my partners during our post-game stated that she still had her between-base protection. Neither of them said that the runner lost that protection when she made it safely back to third and then came off that base.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Just to add, this happened to me in a D1 game a couple of years ago, and I was told by my partners that I blew the call. R1 at first, and the batter hits a single up the middle. R1 tries to go corner to corner, and F8's throw to F5 is just off-line toward the home plate side of third base. F5 dives for the ball as R1 slides headfirst into third. She sees the ball get past F5 toward the dugout, so she pops up and starts heading for home, whereupon she trips over F5 who is still on the ground in the base path. Out comes my arm.

R1 gets up, sees that F1 had backed up the throw, and heads back to third base. IMJ, R1 would have never made it home, so if she had tried and got tagged out easily, I would've told my PU partner that she should return to third. But then the third base coach (and team's head coach) tells his runner, "Go home; that was obstruction!" So she takes off for home at a slow jog. F1, still with the ball, runs over and tags R1, and I ruled her out.

Problem was, I had a senior moment, and I explained to the coach that the reason I called her out was because F1's play on her was a subsequent play (I plumb forgot that the subsequent play rule was specifically for another runner, not the obstructed runner). He rightfully argued that his runner was protected between third and home, and I said her protection went away when she allowed a subsequent play to be made on her.

Both my partners during our post-game stated that she still had her between-base protection. Neither of them said that the runner lost that protection when she made it safely back to third and then came off that base.

I'm trying to remember if I was one of your partners in that game, or if we just discussed this play later (I think it was the latter); but I agree with your partners. It isn't that she left the base after returning safely, there was no play on anyone else in the interim to apply that "subsequent play" exception.

[jmkupka]

Wow. Im reading it real slowly, but now I think I need it fed to me like a child.

1. No one on except the obstructed runner. She touches the base she was protected to, then comes off. Still protected to that base.
2. 2 runners on. Obstructed runner touches base she was protected to. NO subsequent play on other runner. OBS runner comes off. Still protected.
3. 2 runners on. Obstructed runner touches base she was protected to. Subsequent play on other runner. OBS runner comes off. No longer protected.

Correct or no?

[RKBUmp]

Correct

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Wow. Im reading it real slowly, but now I think I need it fed to me like a child.

1. No one on except the obstructed runner. She touches the base she was protected to, then comes off. Still protected to that base.
2. 2 runners on. Obstructed runner touches base she was protected to. NO subsequent play on other runner. OBS runner comes off. Still protected.
3. 2 runners on. Obstructed runner touches base she was protected to. Subsequent play on other runner. OBS runner comes off. No longer protected.

Correct or no?

1 & 2, only if she is between the bases where she was obstructed.

[jmkupka]

And the additional sentence in the NCAA exception (which I posted earlier) only serves to clarify the exception, not to make it differ from the other groups.

[CecilOne]

OK, that is the rule. BUT, WHY does the protection cease with a play on another runner?

Just for clarity, only if the runner attains the "protected to" base?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Just to stir the pot a bit more...

Look back rule is negated if the pitcher makes a fake throw to a base where a runner may be dancing around (or playing games).

Is a fake throw considered a subsequent play? Is it an attempt to retire a runner? If a runner is in a pickle and a defender fakes a throw is that a play?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I'm trying to remember if I was one of your partners in that game, or if we just discussed this play later (I think it was the latter); but I agree with your partners. It isn't that she left the base after returning safely, there was no play on anyone else in the interim to apply that "subsequent play" exception.

I think you and I worked a series shortly after this happened, and we discussed it. I do remember you telling me I was a dumbsh!t or something similar...