Dead ball/Look back

[fredhjr]

Although I did not see the following situation I was asked about it. Batter was hit by a pitch, went to first base, stepped off the base and was called out per the Look Back Rule. I asked if the umpire had called or signalled to play. This was unknown. I explained that if the ball was still dead, then no out. If, however, the umpire had already signalled or told the pitcher to pitch, there was an out. Just looking for some reinforcement here. BTW, there is no heated argument going on. Just discussion of situations and what was, could have, should have been done. What say ya'll?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by fredhjr

Although I did not see the following situation I was asked about it. Batter was hit by a pitch, went to first base, stepped off the base and was called out per the Look Back Rule. I asked if the umpire had called or signalled to play. This was unknown. I explained that if the ball was still dead, then no out. If, however, the umpire had already signalled or told the pitcher to pitch, there was an out. Just looking for some reinforcement here. BTW, there is no heated argument going on. Just discussion of situations and what was, could have, should have been done. What say ya'll?

Nothing happens when the ball is dead (I know, appeals and awards).
The umpire signaling or calling is not needed if the pitcher now has the ball, batter in box, etc.
However, like a foul ball, the runner must have the opportunity to take the base after a dead ball play.

[Andy]

Like Cecil said....timing is everything here.

How often have we had a batter HBP, s/he makes it down to first base, then needs to "walk it off"? Any violation here...of course not, it's a dead ball.

[AtlUmpSteve]

The ball is dead until made live; NFHS and NCAA actually require a point, gesture, or verbalize "play" to signify the ball is now live. However, as a matter of routine, many will recognize when all conditions to make the ball live have been met (pitcher on the pitching plate, catcher ready to receive a pitch, batter in the box and ready, runners ready, umpire ready to call a pitch) that the signal or verbalization may be redundant, and the umpire's actions as ready are sufficient.

The NFHS requirement was added a few years back when a set of umpires ruled that, after a foul ball, when the ball was retrieved and overthrown past the pitcher that the foul ball had ended and runners could advance at their own risk. The story at the time suggested that a very highly regarded individual from San Antonio agreed with that interpretation in support of the umpires, and suggested there was no rule that specifically contradicted that ruling.

As pretty much everyone else understood the intent that the ball remains dead until it is MADE live, the ruling evolved to direct the obvious gesture (point or beckon) and/or verbalization. It sounds like this OP may be a similar FUBAR by someone without any understanding of the concepts.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The ball is dead until made live; NFHS and NCAA actually require a point, gesture, or verbalize "play" to signify the ball is now live. However, as a matter of routine, many will recognize when all conditions to make the ball live have been met (pitcher on the pitching plate, catcher ready to receive a pitch, batter in the box and ready, runners ready, umpire ready to call a pitch) that the signal or verbalization may be redundant, and the umpire's actions as ready are sufficient.

The NFHS requirement was added a few years back when a set of umpires ruled that, after a foul ball, when the ball was retrieved and overthrown past the pitcher that the foul ball had ended and runners could advance at their own risk. The story at the time suggested that a very highly regarded individual from San Antonio agreed with that interpretation in support of the umpires, and suggested there was no rule that specifically contradicted that ruling.

As pretty much everyone else understood the intent that the ball remains dead until it is MADE live, the ruling evolved to direct the obvious gesture (point or beckon) and/or verbalization. It sounds like this OP may be a similar FUBAR by someone without any understanding of the concepts.

Thanks for the reminder that this is an NCAA requirement...for some reason, I thought this was only explicitly required in Fed ball or baseball. Nope...it's right there in the CCA manual in the Plate Umpire section. You know, the part with the basics that I've skimmed over 80 times.

[dlsumpntx]

Can someone post the look back rule text from the USA softball rule book?
Thanks.