Chalk splatters after about 10 hours

[Mountaincoach]

Minor incident that got my curiosity. No big deal. It wasn't a game changer or big controversy. We were on defense last night. Slow roller hit down the 3rd base line. Ball rolled clearly foul at least 3 inches outside the line. You just have to trust me when I say the ball was clearly outside the line in foul territory, and the entire crowd on both sides obviously agreed. My 3rd baseman let it roll and stop there before she picked it up. Yep, you guessed it, PU ruled fair ball. I couldn't help but immediately look at him like "are you crazy?", and he immediately said the ball was touching some "white". I said yeah the line splatters out to about 8 or 9 inches wide when nobody works the field or re-chalks the line after about 10 straight games and I'm sure there was probably a few drops of chalk splatter out that far, but no consistent line. Complete judgement call. I know. I didn't push it because I could tell he was trying to make a point about the line itself. Just wondering how you guys handle the same condition. Do you try to keep original 4 inch line visualized in your head, or do you literally just allow the line to keep getting wider and wider as the day goes by and, as a result, fair territory becomes bigger? You guys know how the fields are handled sometimes during hectic tournaments. They work the fields, but very very rarely do they ever completely drag and re-mark the fields.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mountaincoach

Minor incident that got my curiosity. No big deal. It wasn't a game changer or big controversy. We were on defense last night. Slow roller hit down the 3rd base line. Ball rolled clearly foul at least 3 inches outside the line. You just have to trust me when I say the ball was clearly outside the line in foul territory, and the entire crowd on both sides obviously agreed. My 3rd baseman let it roll and stop there before she picked it up. Yep, you guessed it, PU ruled fair ball. I couldn't help but immediately look at him like "are you crazy?", and he immediately said the ball was touching some "white". I said yeah the line splatters out to about 8 or 9 inches wide when nobody works the field or re-chalks the line after about 10 straight games and I'm sure there was probably a few drops of chalk splatter out that far, but no consistent line. Complete judgement call. I know. I didn't push it because I could tell he was trying to make a point about the line itself. Just wondering how you guys handle the same condition. Do you try to keep original 4 inch line visualized in your head, or do you literally just allow the line to keep getting wider and wider as the day goes by and, as a result, fair territory becomes bigger? You guys know how the fields are handled sometimes during hectic tournaments. They work the fields, but very very rarely do they ever completely drag and re-mark the fields.

The chalk or paint is merely a convenience to the participants and is not part of the rule. You had an umpire who was poorly trained or an idiot.


I would have demanded an interpretation used to determine it was a fair ball. If the response is what you said, I'd protest the game.

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The chalk or paint is merely a convenience to the participants and is not part of the rule. You had an umpire who was poorly trained or an idiot.


I would have demanded an interpretation used to determine it was a fair ball. If the response is what you said, I'd protest the game.

I don't think there is any way that a protest of a fair/foul decision would be upheld. However, I agree that the line is just a convenience. If it is absent or not present, just like batters box lines, the umpire still has to make the judgement based on the rulebook dimensions of the field.

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[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

I don't think there is any way that a protest of a fair/foul decision would be upheld. However, I agree that the line is just a convenience. If it is absent or not present, just like batters box lines, the umpire still has to make the judgement based on the rulebook dimensions of the field.

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You can when it is not a matter of judgment, but misapplication of a rule, or in this case, a non-rule

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You can when it is not a matter of judgment, but misapplication of a rule, or in this case, a non-rule

Im not saying you are wrong. Technically, this is a misinterpretation. I just doubt the protest will be upheld.

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[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

Im not saying you are wrong. Technically, this is a misinterpretation. I just doubt the protest will be upheld.

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It would if I were the UIC

[CecilOne]

Obviously, fair is fair and foul is foul; using the outer edge of the base and a fair pole if there. Many times, we make that call when the ball contacts a fielder while still in flight.

This might be a tangent, but what about this:
Lines are drawn badly at the beginning of the game, either crooked or missing the base edge (can't be fixed). The coaches are often told we will "play the lines" on a ground ball, to allow easier calls, but mostly for the players' benefit who don't have a line of sight.
Legit or not?

[Tru_in_Blu]

I've worked many a game where the foul lines appeared to be put down by someone after their tee mini martoonie lunch.

Sometime the lines are bowed in or out, sometimes they're crooked. I might have an easier sell of a call without lines at times. But where there are lines, I do tell the coaches at the plate conference that I will utilize the chalk. A ball that might have traveled 20 feet further down the line might have a different result.

For infield calls on rollers down a line, I will use whatever might be left of the original line. Eight inch lines don't work. A lot of times we're lucky to get 2 inch lines.

Many games are worked without any kind of lines. At the plate conference, I tell the coaches that my partner and I will make calls based upon the lines of which only my partner and I can see. Give them a good effort and hustle to a place to make the call, and they're usually OK to deal with.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Obviously, fair is fair and foul is foul; using the outer edge of the base and a fair pole if there. Many times, we make that call when the ball contacts a fielder while still in flight.

This might be a tangent, but what about this:
Lines are drawn badly at the beginning of the game, either crooked or missing the base edge (can't be fixed). The coaches are often told we will "play the lines" on a ground ball, to allow easier calls, but mostly for the players' benefit who don't have a line of sight.
Legit or not?

The definition of "fair territory" includes the foul lines, and it doesn't state they must be accurately drawn. There is no basis to rule otherwise. As the umpires, you either accept or reject the field; if you accept it, they play ball according to game rules or ground rules. (And before anyone thinks that is the out clause, ground rules are not permitted to supercede game rules.)

Your options are to either 1) require bad lines to be redrawn, 2) have bad lines removed (leaving everything to umpire judgment, the default when there is no visible line), or 3) use the lines as they exist.

There are only 3 instances I can name where you can legally ignore a poorly drawn line, where by rule a batted ball must be fair if it touches 1) home plate (while being touched by a defensive player), 2) a base, or 3) a foul pole in flight.