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No play was made on the obstructed runner after the ball got away. The play attempt was made on the trailing runner that scored.
The point of the OP is, can the obstructed runner still legally touch home plate since they missed it because of the obstruction AFTER a trailing runner has scored. |
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Sure, why not? Couldn't you argue that because the obstruction prevented the lead runner from touching home, the trail runner was also affected by the obstruction because she had to stop in order to let the lead runner legally touch the plate? That would seem cleaner than ignoring that the obstructed runner can no longer legally touch the plate when the trail runner scored, and using 10.1 as justification.
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"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker |
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While it's not unreasonable to require R1 to complete her responsibilities (and rely on us to properly rule on the OBS), I think it'd be too much to ask of R2 to do the same (hold up short of the plate while R1 touches).
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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Sorry, I knew Manny was asking an USA question and I've never seen a NSA rule book.
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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Does that always apply to an obstructed base, given passed = touched?
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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So, here's what I've got; and it varies just a bit based on what R1 does. Yes, runners do need to touch missed bases, even awarded bases, so what can/should R1 do? If R1 makes any effort to come back to touch the plate, before or after R2, and even before or after an appeal, live ball or dead ball, I'm awarding home on the obstruction, AND accepting the touch made as meeting the rule requirement. EXCEPT; if R1 leaves, and enters dead ball territory without making any effort to touch the missed base, and THEN tries to return because there is an appeal, in that case I would consider it a missed base despite the obstruction. But, that's just me.
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Steve ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF |
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Yet legally she can't go back and retouch home because a trailing runner has scored. So she's obstucted, scores but misses home (assumed to have touched till appealed) then tailing runner scores, then obstructed runner is tagged on a live ball appeal. So now we have a dead ball as obstructed runner was played on and would be out sans OBS. Awards for OBS include awarding all runners the bases they would have gotten otherwise, and in this case both runners should be awarded home. Since R1 missed home and R2 scored after her should we require both of them to touch home plate in proper order during dead ball to satisfy running requirements? And if they don't and just head into dugout can defense now appeal R1 basically missing home again after being awarded it? Hmmmmm... |
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More to add to above..
Should there be judgment as to whether or not the OBS is why R1 missed HP in first place and should there be judgement as to whether that OBS prevented her from returning before R2 scores? If R2 is 50 feet behind R1 and R2 is judged to have had time to touch home prior to trailing runner scoring does that play into the decision? Again hmmmmmm... |
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Good luck selling that to a player or coach. BTW, that used to be the suggested action when an OBS runner went down, that the trailing runner not pass and allow the umpire to make the appropriate ruling. That changed at the 2011(or 2013) UIC Clinic when an updated interpretation was offered. Personally, I would love if it were that simple, but it is not. I stand by my previous post. And 10.1 isn't a justification, it is authorization.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. |
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. |
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In this OP, that is already done and presented. Even in your last question, time and distance are not the only factors, also physical position of the runner, more OBS, etc. Still, the rule is OBS gets all runners the base they are judged to would have achieved without it; given the listed exceptions. The only problem here is R1 never touching home after the fact and leaving live ball territory. It does not matter if the touch is during live ball or dead ball, or before or after R2. The question then becomes about "opportunity to complete baserunning responsibilities" regarding the appeal. Does the opportunity remain until R1 leaves live ball territory?
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Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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What we really need is an exception to the rules requiring obstructed runners to still touch all bases legally. For example, under NFHS 8-4-3b, you would have something like this: Quote:
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker |
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Quote:
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
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