Abandining the base and umpire jeopardy

[Reffing Rev.]

USA softball rules
12U class C state tournament.

Runners on 1st and 3rd. 0 outs

Short fly to f4, caught thrown to f3. Presumably a double play. F3 however was off the base. BU from C position called the out. Base coach motioned that the foot was pulled. BU echoed out call. Runner returns to dugout. HC asks BU to confer with partner on pulled foot. Partner agrees, foot was off the base. Runner is however ruled out for abandoning the base.

Should runner be returned to 1st?

[Insane Blue]

Yes

[RKBUmp]

Who would ever think the runner can be ruled out for leaving the field of play after they have already been called out? That is exactly what the rule on dealy of call or reversal of call is all about. The umpire put the runner in jeopardy and when the call was reversed the runner is put where they should have been.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Who would ever think the runner can be ruled out for leaving the field of play after they have already been called out? That is exactly what the rule on dealy of call or reversal of call is all about. The umpire put the runner in jeopardy and when the call was reversed the runner is put where they should have been.

If it happened again, the called out runner should round the rest of the bases before heading to the dugout. Then the run would score.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

If it happened again, the called out runner should round the rest of the bases before heading to the dugout. Then the run would score.

I don't think so!

[josephrt1]

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev.

USA softball rules

Should runner be returned to 1st?

I'm putting her back on base. There was a reversed, and delayed, call by the umpires that definitely put this girl in jeopardy. Correct the situation.

USA Rule 10.3.C. The plate umpire may rectify any situation in which the reversal of an umpire’s decision or a delayed call by an umpire places a batter-runner, a runner or the defensive team in jeopardy. This correction is not possible after one pitch legal or illegal, or after the pitcher and all infielders have clearly vacated their normal fielding positions and have left fair territory on their way to the bench or dugout area, or after the last play of the game, the umpires have left the field of play.

[AtlUmpSteve]

It's the fools that would even dream of this being abandoning a base that create and set off one of personal peeves on the ball field. I personally consider it insulting and disrespectful for a coach to tell a runner that I have called out to "stay on the base".

When I call a runner out, I expect her to leave, and go to the dugout. That isn't abandoning, it is what she is expected to do. THEN, if the coach wants to discuss the call, and if I agree to discuss with my partner, and if I change my call based on additional information from my partner, then I will put the runners where they belong based on my changed call.

[josephrt1]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

It's the fools that would even dream of this being abandoning a base that create and set off one of personal peeves on the ball field.

2 examples from recent past in my coaching days:

1. Runner's on 1st and 2nd. Ball hit to F4 with a little bit of an arc. Is it a line drive or fly ball? Runner on 1st holds off the bag to see if caught. Ball juggled and dropped. (should have been caught easily but not intentionally dropped.) Runner tries to get to 2nd but ball beats her by a mile. Base ump calls her out on force. She goes to the dugout. Meanwhile batter reached 1st safely. When runner who was called out on the force at 2nd reaches dugout, plate ump yells, "she left the field she is out. Runner on 1st is out on the infield fly. 3 outs!" WHAT!

Everyone heard him yell "she left the field". No one, including his partner heard him call IFF. Seems like a case of umpire putting runner in jeopardy. Base ump realized what happened and was willing to discuss. Plate said, can't do anything, she left the field.

2. Single ump. My batter gets drilled in the knee and can not stand. I talk to ump and agree to take her to the dugout and put in a sub. Once sub on base, opposing coach talks to the ump. Ump walks over to me and says, i have to call your runner out, the original batter did not touch 1st base. I said we discussed this and you said it was OK. Yeah, but the other coach complained and i have to enforce the rules. I said, its a dead ball substitution allowed by rule. He said that's not a rule and your batter went into the dugout.

Anyone who coached probably has a million of these that they can't get out of their brain. I must admit i have told my runners on more than one occasion to stand off to the side while i talk to the ump.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

2 examples from recent past in my coaching days: (snip)

Wow. I've umpired this game, I've played men's FP, and I've also coached youth. I can tell you that if a protest was not available, I would have been ejected on both of these plays. I wouldn't have gone ballistic, but I wouldn't have left the field until these were either fixed or the umpire finally got tired of me calmly explaining the rules and sent me to the parking lot.