Missed plate after home run

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MT 73

The coach in the white long sleeve shirt saw her miss the plate and was trying to get her attention to go back and touch it.
Before the home run hitter could enter the dugout she grabbed her and guided her back towards the plate.
Would that qualify for an out?

The NCAA rule for runner assistance violations only occur during a live ball. See rule 12.8.3.

[MT 73]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The NCAA rule for runner assistance violations only occur during a live ball. See rule 12.8.3.

That's right. Thanks.
I do not do NCAA but I think the same rule applies USA and NHFS.
Now in this case was the appeal legit?
Does the ball have to be made live for an appeal in NCAA?

[BretMan]

NFHS: It's not clear if assisting the runner could only be called during a live ball. Their rule says that a coach may not assist a runner "during playing action". Does that mean when the ball is live? Nothing in the their case book seems to address this point.

USA/ASA: Their rule states that the ball must be live to call assisting a runner. But...they also have a case play where a runner misses home plate, after on over the fence home run, and is pushed back toward the plate just before entering the dugout. The ruling is that this runner would be out. So, it's the lone exception to their rule.

This sounds like one of those rules where the printed rule pretty much matches throughout multiple organizations, but they've issued interpretations that deviate away from each other, based on various "what if" and "maybe" scenarios.

Kind of like with an intentionally dropped ball. The rules all agree that you can't intentionally drop the ball in certain situations. But I can think of at least four different ways that a "dropped ball" is defined by four different sanctioning bodies!

[MT 73]

The USA book talks about a runner who misses home plate and is assisted back to the plate as out in a live ball situation. ( Section 7 Exception E)
Where is the rule about this being true during a dead ball?

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by MT 73

The USA book talks about a runner who misses home plate and is assisted back to the plate as out in a live ball situation. ( Section 7 Exception E)
Where is the rule about this being true during a dead ball?

USA case play, last sentence.

PLAY 8.7-12
R1 slides and misses home plate. The on-deck batter pushes R1 back toward home plate.
RULING: The ball becomes dead when the on-deck batter assists R1 after scoring. R1 is ruled out and the run nullified. “Dead ball” runner assistance only occurs after a runner has scored. (8-7E EXCEPTION)

[BretMan]

That's the case play I was remembering. But now...upon further review...I'm thinking that maybe it's not saying what I thought it said.

While that last sentence seems to suggest that you can have runner assistance when the ball is dead under a certain circumstance, the play itself happened during a live ball. My memory was that there is a case play with the miss of home coming during a dead ball. But I wasn't able to find that one so maybe it doesn't exist!

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by BretMan

That's the case play I was remembering. But now...upon further review...I'm thinking that maybe it's not saying what I thought it said.

While that last sentence seems to suggest that you can have runner assistance when the ball is dead under a certain circumstance, the play itself happened during a live ball. My memory was that there is a case play with the miss of home coming during a dead ball. But I wasn't able to find that one so maybe it doesn't exist!

I thought the same thing as you, until a reread the rule and then the case play and realized what it is actually saying. Whoever worded it could have done a much better job. It should say, The only time the ball becomes dead for runner assistance is after a runner has scored. The way it reads now it is very easy to mistake for the runner is out if assisted after scoring during a dead ball.

I thought I had deleted the post but apparently it didnt.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

USA case play, last sentence.

PLAY 8.7-12
R1 slides and misses home plate. The on-deck batter pushes R1 back toward home plate.
RULING: The ball becomes dead when the on-deck batter assists R1 after scoring. R1 is ruled out and the run nullified. “Dead ball” runner assistance only occurs after a runner has scored. (8-7E EXCEPTION)

But at the point of the assistance, the ball was live. IMO, this rule should be change to include runners who are legally advancing during a dead ball period.