Missed plate after home run

[Fan10]

Bama/Ole Miss game on TV-Batter misses home plate after hitting an apparent homer. Plate umpire hands the catcher a new ball moments after the batter missed home. The catcher tags the batter, and the plate umpire calls the batter out.

My question is this: How long does the batter have to return home before being liable to be put out. She had not reached the dugout.

Thanks in advance

[RKBUmp]

As soon as she missed the plate she was subject to appeal.

After reviewing the dead ball appeal procedures my initial comment above is incorrect. Runner must be given opportunity to correct running error prior to the umpire honoring appeal. But, the length of time to complete thier base running when they miss home plate is at the judgement of the umpire.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

As soon as she missed the plate she was subject to appeal.

Is the answer the same for USA/NFHS? It seems like this is a situation where the runner has a chance to complete baserunning duties (including fixing errors) before an appeal can be granted.

[RKBUmp]

The rule does say the runner must be given the opportunity to complete their base running responsibilities prior to honoring the appeal, but it does not say the runner has until they enter the dugout. The umpire gave the runner plenty of time to correct their error, they were celebrating with their teammates walking toward the dugout. I would guess the umpire considered that sufficient time to have fixed the missed base and honored the appeal.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

The rule does say the runner must be given the opportunity to complete their base running responsibilities prior to honoring the appeal, but it does not say the runner has until they enter the dugout. The umpire gave the runner plenty of time to correct their error, they were celebrating with their teammates walking toward the dugout. I would guess the umpire considered that sufficient time to have fixed the missed base and honored the appeal.

Not sure if you're trying to give a different description of the actual play that inspired the OP, but I agree that is a valid time to honor the appeal. I just don't agree that the moment she missed the plate is it.

[RKBUmp]

Been a long time since I went through the dead ball appeal process, does not come up that often especially with base awards and dead balls.

I was incorrect in my original comment about as soon as the runner missed home, by rule she must be given the opportunity to correct the error, but that becomes umpire judgement as to how much time she has to correct it.

[RKBUmp]

Well apparently in NCAA there is an approved ruling on this stating the ball must be made live before an appeal can be made and the runner has until they enter the dugout to return and touch home plate. I dont have access to the approved rulings, just saw it posted in another forum.

[BretMan]

USA does have a case play where the runner misses the plate but is pushed back by a team member to touch it. I believe it's the only example where you can have an "assisting the runner" out during a dead ball.

[jmkupka]

I'm guessing, though, in the case of a 2-run homer, where it's the previous runner who pushes the hitter back to the plate (as opposed to a coach or non-involved player), there wouldn't be a problem there...

[Manny A]

Here is the NCAA Approved Ruling on a similar situation that Richard mentioned above. I found it doing a Google search (not doing a cut/paste from the NCAA Central Hub), but the latest version is verbatim except for the rule reference of 12.22.5.5:

Bottom of the seventh inning of a tied game with no one on base and no one out. The batter hits an out-of-the–park home run but misses home plate. She accepts her teammate’s congratulations at the plate and then creates the line to shake hands with her opponents without ever leaving the field. As the defensive players begin walking in to the infield to shake hands, the defensive coach tells the first baseman to tell her teammates to stay on the field and get a ball from the umpire. Hearing this, the offensive coach knows they are going to appeal a missed base so she has her player run the bases in reverse order and then the proper order which she does before the defense was able to make the dead ball appeal. Is there anything the defense can do to appeal without tipping off the offense?
RULING: By rule, a runner may not return to touch a missed base if she has touched the final base of her award (see Rule 12.22.5.5) so the only base she can return to on an out-of-the-park home run is home plate. In this case, the offensive head coach is obviously unaware of the rule and unsure of which base was missed so the player is directed to touch all bases in reverse order and then the proper order.
At the moment the runner touches home plate as the beginning of her run to touch the bases in reverse order, the umpire could declare her safe and prevent the rest of her run around the bases. But if that does not happen and the runner proceeds, there is no penalty.
By rule, with the ball out of play, the defense cannot appeal a missed base until the ball is put back in play, the defense is in position and the next batter summoned to the batter’s box. But since this was a game ending play, the reality is the runner will always be able to return to touch home plate before the defense can properly appeal.

As I read that:
1. The defense cannot legally perform a dead-ball appeal until the "ball is put back in play", so in this play, the dead ball appeal was prematurely allowed since the next batter wasn't summoned to the batter's box.
2. The runner is allowed to return and touch home, even after she sets up the conga line to do the post-game ritual. If that's the case in the AR, then I believe this particular runner can also return to touch home until the point where she enters the dugout and gives up her ability to return onto the field to fix her mistake.

So I think the home run should have stood in this play. There was some discussion that a Bama coach or one of her teammates pushed the runner back to go touch the plate, which is another story. Absent that, however, I don't see why the runner should be disallowed to touch home if she remains on the field.

[Scooby]

Dead Ball Appeal Situation
May 2, 2017
Situation: The batter hits an out-of-the-park home run but does not touch home plate. How
does the defense make an appeal without the ball?
Ruling: The runner can return and touch home plate as long as she has not entered the dugout.
By rule, a runner may not return to touch a missed base if she has touched the final base of her
award (see Rule 12.22.4.5) so the only base she can return to on an out-of-the-park home run is
home plate. If she has gone into the dugout she has left the field of play and cannot return to
touch the plate (Rule 12.22.5.1).
This is a dead ball appeal. The appeal cannot be made until the ball is put back in play (Rule
7.1.2.2.3). Handing the ball to the catcher and her throwing it to the pitcher does not “put the
ball back in play”. By rule, with the ball out of play, the defense cannot appeal a missed base
until the ball is put back in play, the defense is in position, the next batter summoned to the
batter’s box and the umpire indicates “Play Ball” (Rule 6.10.4).
A dead ball remains dead until an umpire indicates resumption of play (Rule 1.14).

[RKBUmp]

So in other words, in NCAA if the ball goes out of play there is no such thing as a dead ball appeal for any infraction. The ball has to be put back into live play before any appeal can be made.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

So in other words, in NCAA if the ball goes out of play there is no such thing as a dead ball appeal for any infraction. The ball has to be put back into live play before any appeal can be made.

And furthermore to extrapolate the logic one does not have to run out a walk off HR?

[MT 73]

The coach in the white long sleeve shirt saw her miss the plate and was trying to get her attention to go back and touch it.
Before the home run hitter could enter the dugout she grabbed her and guided her back towards the plate.
Would that qualify for an out?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MT 73

The coach in the white long sleeve shirt saw her miss the plate and was trying to get her attention to go back and touch it.
Before the home run hitter could enter the dugout she grabbed her and guided her back towards the plate.
Would that qualify for an out?

The NCAA rule for runner assistance violations only occur during a live ball. See rule 12.8.3.