base mechanics

[MT 73]

In both baseball and softball we were taught the " 1rst-3rd signal.
Base umpire is in the B and signals to a PU that U1 has the play at 3rd base.
However if the situation permits the base umpire can call off the PU at 3rd.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Here is another version, copied not mine.

WHO'S GOT THIRD (of course, WHO HAS THIRD would be grammatically correct, and WHO COVERS THIRD correct for umpires)?
The answer isn't "I don't know"!
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In two-person mechanics, there are SIX instances that are the BASE UMPIRE'S CALL:

1) batter-runner on a triple,

2) the last runner into third base,

3) a lone runner on fly ball advancement,

4) any return throw from the plate area, or cut-off by a player,

5) a steal or pickoff, and

6) the FIRST THROW only BY AN INFIELDER

Elaboration:

#6 means that the PLATE UMPIRE has the call at third on the "first to third" play when the runner breaks from second. It also means that with runners on first and second and a hard one hopper to left field, the plate umpire may very well have a FORCE OUT CALL at third base because that is NOT a first throw from an INFIELDER

#4 means that even though the plate umpire has moved up to the holding zone at the beginning of the play, if the throw toward home PULLS him/her back toward the plate area, the BASE UMPIRE has to take the subsequent play at third base

Pregame these coverages with your partner!

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Yes, some are redundant. As copied, not mine.

On number 6, the first play by an infielder. I'm not sure I've ever quite been certain about how to decide if something is the first play on the infield and based on a lot of pre-gaming, nobody else seems 100% confident either. For example, is an appeal after a catch the first play in the infield? The catch is a play, so it doesn't quite meet the definitions, but most people see it as a first play and it makes more sense that way. If you read it as the first throw by an infielder as above, then you have the situation where a ball is popped up right between the shortstop and the left fielder is dropped and who covers the runner moving from first to second depends on which person picks up the ball which doesn't make a ton of sense. I'm not sure how to make the coverage clearer but finding a better way to express this would alleviate confusion. I don't have my rule book with me, but doesn't the actual mechanic say it's based on whether the ball is hit to the outfield not who fields it?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MT 73

In both baseball and softball we were taught the " 1rst-3rd signal.
Base umpire is in the B and signals to a PU that U1 has the play at 3rd base.
However if the situation permits the base umpire can call off the PU at 3rd.

Maybe just todays distractions, but I don't follow this.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

On number 6, the first play by an infielder. I'm not sure I've ever quite been certain about how to decide if something is the first play on the infield and based on a lot of pre-gaming, nobody else seems 100% confident either. For example, is an appeal after a catch the first play in the infield? The catch is a play, so it doesn't quite meet the definitions, but most people see it as a first play and it makes more sense that way. If you read it as the first throw by an infielder as above, then you have the situation where a ball is popped up right between the shortstop and the left fielder is dropped and who covers the runner moving from first to second depends on which person picks up the ball which doesn't make a ton of sense. I'm not sure how to make the coverage clearer but finding a better way to express this would alleviate confusion. I don't have my rule book with me, but doesn't the actual mechanic say it's based on whether the ball is hit to the outfield not who fields it?

It is the first throw in the infield. A catch is not a throw, nor is it a play if the ball isn't in flight.

[bigwally]

The plate umpire needs to clear the catcher and keep his eye on the ball in case it gets mishandled or accidently kicked into dead ball territory. Moving to third base would have the plate umpire taking his eye off the ball, running with his back to the ball and having no idea when or where the throw is coming from. That puts him in a precarious situation. The base umpire needs to hustle around second and on to third to make that call. He would have all the elements of the play in front of him. He can see the ball, he can see when its thrown and he has the runner and the base in front of him. He may not acquire the angle the home plate umpire would have by coming up the line but thats a small concession considering the other advantages the base umpire has. That being said, in certain situations when the ball and catcher cooperate and plate umpire can safely, without interfering with the play get to third base, I see no problem with him calling for the play at 3rd otherwise this is the base umpires call

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bigwally

The plate umpire needs to clear the catcher and keep his eye on the ball in case it gets mishandled or accidently kicked into dead ball territory. Moving to third base would have the plate umpire taking his eye off the ball, running with his back to the ball and having no idea when or where the throw is coming from. That puts him in a precarious situation.

Not necessarily true. I can move and turn my head at the same time. BTW, IMO, it is the catcher who clears the umpire. Barring the ball ricocheting off the catcher or umpire to the 1B side of the 3BLE, I have no issue stepping inside the diamond and open up to see everything necessary.

The base umpire needs to hustle around second and on to third to make that call. He would have all the elements of the play in front of him. He can see the ball, he can see when its thrown and he has the runner and the base in front of him. He may not acquire the angle the home plate umpire would have by coming up the line but thats a small concession considering the other advantages the base umpire has. That being said, in certain situations when the ball and catcher cooperate and plate umpire can safely, without interfering with the play get to third base, I see no problem with him calling for the play at 3rd otherwise this is the base umpires call

S/he will never be in a decent position to see a play at 3B unless the runner falls down or gives him/herself up. The BU isn't going to realize s/he needs to cover 3B until the runner has two steps in that direction and will never outrun the player. BU cannot cheat toward 3B in a preemptive manner. Not to mention, depending on the play, the BU may also need to get around a defender moving to cover the base.

Personally, I'll take the closer distance, flexibility of options and the open field the PU enjoys on such coverage. JMHO

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Not necessarily true. I can move and turn my head at the same time. BTW, IMO, it is the catcher who clears the umpire. Barring the ball ricocheting off the catcher or umpire to the 1B side of the 3BLE, I have no issue stepping inside the diamond and open up to see everything necessary.




S/he will never be in a decent position to see a play at 3B unless the runner falls down or gives him/herself up. The BU isn't going to realize s/he needs to cover 3B until the runner has two steps in that direction and will never outrun the player. BU cannot cheat toward 3B in a preemptive manner. Not to mention, depending on the play, the BU may also need to get around a defender moving to cover the base.

Personally, I'll take the closer distance, flexibility of options and the open field the PU enjoys on such coverage. JMHO

And all we need is to put it in the book, eliminating this discussion.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

And all we need is to put it in the book, eliminating this discussion.

Yeah, 'cause as you know, we always agree with everything in the book!

[bigwally]

"Not necessarily true. I can move and turn my head at the same time"

As we all know that is an awkward running position and why should you have to when the base umpire has all of this in front of him?




"The BU isn't going to realize s/he needs to cover 3B until the runner has two steps in that direction and will never outrun the player."

Most of the time the runner isnt going to make a move to third until s/he slides or slows up coming into second, giving the BU even more of a jump ahad. Any experienced umpire is going to realize s/he is possibly going to need to cover third as soon as the ball gets passed the catcher. Anticipation is part of umpiring and so is hustling. Using these two tools , you wont be as far behind the runner as you think when you set up for your call

And since none of this is covered in the book it is, in fact, opinion. Pregame it and do whats best for you when the situation arises

[MT 73]

I keep my eye on the ball while working my way to the library and observe the action from there.
I stay in foul ball territory and only break into fair ground when a play seems imminent.
When in position I track the ball and let it lead me to the play.
In other words I never lose sight of the ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MT 73

I keep my eye on the ball while working my way to the library and observe the action from there.
I stay in foul ball territory and only break into fair ground when a play seems imminent.
When in position I track the ball and let it lead me to the play.
In other words I never lose sight of the ball.

So you don't watch the players and what they are supposed to do? Focus on the ball is overrated.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bigwally

As we all know that is an awkward running position and why should you have to when the base umpire has all of this in front of him?

Actually, it is not and because the BU isn't going to be able to get into position to make that call. You know, there is a reason the PU has 3B on steals in a SP game.

Most of the time the runner isnt going to make a move to third until s/he slides or slows up coming into second, giving the BU even more of a jump ahead. Any experienced umpire is going to realize s/he is possibly going to need to cover third as soon as the ball gets passed the catcher. Anticipation is part of umpiring and so is hustling. Using these two tools , you wont be as far behind the runner as you think when you set up for your call

How can you "jump ahead" when doing so is going to put you in between the ball and a possible throw to 2B? IMO, any PU who is on the ball and hustles will always have a much better chance of getting a good look at this play.

And since none of this is covered in the book it is, in fact, opinion. Pregame it and do whats best for you when the situation arises

You might want to check teebob's post (#12) from last Monday

[MT 73]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So you don't watch the players and what they are supposed to do? Focus on the ball is overrated.

It is called the library because you are reading the action, just as you would from point extended.
But you are in a position to move into 3rd or back to the plate.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MT 73

It is called the library because you are reading the action, just as you would from point extended.
But you are in a position to move into 3rd or back to the plate.

Thank you, but I wasn't referring to that, but what I believe is your over-dedication to the ball. Maybe not YOUR over-dedication, but many umpires as a group.

[bigwally]

How can you "jump ahead" when doing so is going to put you in between the ball and a possible throw to 2B?

This woudn"t happen. Do you think I"m talking about cutting in front of 2nd base? I'm not. I can only suppose that I'm not giving a good explanation of what I mean as I'm surprised that your'e not visualizing the mechanic. I guess my question to you would be this. How have you, in the past, covered 3rd base as the BU when the PU for one of several very good reasons couldnt get there?