base mechanics

[CecilOne]

BU in B slot.
When R1 goes from 1st to 3rd on a steal/PB; the BU has the call at 3rd because it is the last runner.
Please help me find this play in the manual.

[jmkupka]

As a BU, I always curl around the inside of 2B after I see the ball roll into the outfield, anticipating runner bolting for 3B and ready to take her into the base.

As a PU, I NEVER see my partner do that, and I start up the line, anticipating runner bolting for 3B (and calling "I've got 3rd")

Thanks for asking this question, now I'll know which of the two I'm wrong for doing.

[3afan]

Pre-game it with your partner. In my recent experience the PU will take 3rd 95% of the time. Obviously if its a PU that doesn't move much then the BU needs to get there.

Then you discuss it post-game.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

BU in B slot.
Another ump says that when R1 goes from 1st to 3rd on a steal/PB; the BU has the call at 3rd because it is the last runner.
Please help me find this play in the manual.

This play is not in the manual, but remember the 4 times the base umpire makes a call at third (USA/NFHS - my paraphrasing):
1. BR/trail runner/ last runner
2. First throw from an infielder after fielding batter ball
3. Steal of third
4. Ball that is thrown home, cut off, and thrown to third

I guess you could say it fits under a steal of third and the trail runner.

But look at it practically: on a PB, the ball is behind PU. Why would you make him look for it, and then avoid the throw to third, and then watching for a tag with the ball coming over his shoulder? Not a good position to be in for PU. Ergo, make this is the BU's call.

[Tru_in_Blu]

I always pre-game the steal of second and the ball going into the outfield. I like PU coming up the line. PU will definitely have the 90 to the base while the BU could be straight-lined. So as either PU or BU, I like the PU helping out with that call. Most of our guys cannot keep up with many of the slowest runners these days.

On the PB situation, as PU I'll locate the ball and try to stay out of the throwing lane. I think this one is a bit tougher for the PU in finding the ball, keeping an eye out for batter INT and staying out of the way of a throw. I'm trying to think if I've ever seen a runner go from 1st to 3rd on a PB/WP. I almost have to say it's happened, but I'm not remembering any. Maybe at lower levels when bylaws don't restrict how many bases can be taken on a PB/WP.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

BU in B slot.
Another ump says that when R1 goes from 1st to 3rd on a steal/PB; the BU has the call at 3rd because it is the last runner.
Please help me find this play in the manual.

All mechanics manuals agree; this is the base umpire's call UNLESS the plate umpire calls him off. It is the base umpire's call because there are times the plate umpire is pinned by the location of the ball and cannot get to third without interfering with the play. There is no manual that directs it as the plate umpire's call on a passed ball or stealing runner at any base.

That said, unless pinned, any decent plate umpire should recognize that he has the better angle coming up the line than the base umpire trailing, and call the base umpire off, whenever possible. Failure to recognize the play developing, or watching it, isn't pinned; it's bad umpiring.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

BU in B slot.
Another ump says that when R1 goes from 1st to 3rd on a steal/PB; the BU has the call at 3rd because it is the last runner.
Please help me find this play in the manual.

I have always been taught that the plate umpire has the call at 3B on a 1st to 3rd steal/passed ball.

2017 USA Softball Umpire Manual, page 37, paraphrased.

Chapter 4: Plate Mechanics; Section B: Movement from the Plate -- 1a: On a ball that eludes the catcher: passed ball, fly ball behind the catcher, or a dropped third strike, the plate umpire should be ready to move to clear the catcher.

1a (3): After the umpire has cleared the catcher, move to the next area of responsibility; the catch, trailing the batter-runner, play at 3B or the plate.

2a: After going to the holding zone, and a play develops at 3B, move inside the diamond about two-thirds of the way to 3B, to a minimum of 10-12 feet from the base, obtaining a 90-degree angle. Stop, read the play, and make the call.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

BU in B slot.
Another ump says that when R1 goes from 1st to 3rd on a steal/PB; the BU has the call at 3rd because it is the last runner.
Please help me find this play in the manual.

If it is the "last" runner, where is the lead runner? Oh, that's right, it is the one on the way to 3B.

On a steal, this is the PU's call all day. PU has better range of vision and angle to a possible play

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

On a steal, this is the PU's call all day. PU has better range of vision and angle to a possible play

For practicality, effectiveness, getting the call right, YES.
I don't remember having difficulty finding the throwing lane on a passed ball.

But Slick & Steve have good points from the book.

I think the solution is pre-game and communication.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

This play is not in the manual, but remember the 4 times the base umpire makes a call at third (USA/NFHS - my paraphrasing):
1. BR/trail runner/ last runner
2. First throw from an infielder after fielding batter ball
3. Steal of third
4. Ball that is thrown home, cut off, and thrown to third

I guess you could say it fits under a steal of third and the trail runner.

But look at it practically: on a PB, the ball is behind PU. Why would you make him look for it, and then avoid the throw to third, and then watching for a tag with the ball coming over his shoulder? Not a good position to be in for PU. Ergo, make this is the BU's call.

But this wasn't really a "steal of third". It was subsequent to a steal of second. Check the USA umpire manual 4.B.1 (Page 37). Teebob quoted above.

BTW, though not suggested, I am not opposed to a PU safely moving to inside the diamond if possible to clear any area necessary for the defense to recover a loose ball.

[Manny A]

I've always treated it this way: If the BU is "stuck" behind second in position to make a call because there's an imminent play there, then he/she is going to have to play catch-up when the runner slows down or stops at second and then continues on. That, to me, is when the PU should call off the BU for any subsequent play at third.

But if there is no play at second base and the runner simply rounds the bag and continues on to third, the BU should have no trouble moving to third to take the play there. That typically happens when the ball is rattling around near the backstop or dugout, and the PU will likely be pinned back there watching to make sure it doesn't enter DBT.

[teebob21]

I'm a little surprised at the quantity of discussion on this...as I said before, I've always been instructed that this is PU's call. Allow me to compare this to another relatively routine play.

R1 on 1B, the BR bunts a ball that settles fair on top of home plate. F2 has no play at 1B on the BR, but R1 advances non-stop around 2B to 3B. F5 throws to 3B to make a play on R1. Who makes the call?

Plate umpire, right? EVEN THOUGH, this is one of the 4 times the book says this call belongs to the base umpire: "First throw from an infielder after fielding a batted ball". I don't think it is a reasonable expectation for the BU to start behind F4 on the pitch and move to a credible calling position on any initial play on the lead runner at 3B, at any level. The ASA/USA manual agrees, but the printed version has a typo. Correction posted here in April: April Plays and Clarifications

Originally Posted by Manny A

But if there is no play at second base and the runner simply rounds the bag and continues on to third, the BU should have no trouble moving to third to take the play there. That typically happens when the ball is rattling around near the backstop or dugout, and the PU will likely be pinned back there watching to make sure it doesn't enter DBT.

Manny, if you have those kind of wheels, good for you. I used to be as fast as the players, but I don't think I've been able to beat the runner to both 2B and 3B on the outside of the basepaths since I was 18 or 19.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I've always treated it this way: If the BU is "stuck" behind second in position to make a call because there's an imminent play there, then he/she is going to have to play catch-up when the runner slows down or stops at second and then continues on. That, to me, is when the PU should call off the BU for any subsequent play at third.

But if there is no play at second base and the runner simply rounds the bag and continues on to third, the BU should have no trouble moving to third to take the play there. That typically happens when the ball is rattling around near the backstop or dugout, and the PU will likely be pinned back there watching to make sure it doesn't enter DBT.

The PU should never be "pinned" anywhere on a loose ball behind the plate

[UmpireErnie]

Avoiding having BU have to chase that trail runner from 2B to 3B and having to try to make a call from incredibly bad angle, possibly straight lined to the play is the goal here. Sure, if there is no play on trail runner at 2B and she is not trying fen slowing down BU should normally be able to take her to 3B. But PU has responsibility to read the play and be ready to take 3B in order to stay ahead of the runner. If the runner advances beyond 3B, PU is at least starting from a position between home and 3B ahead of the runner.

We had one tonight in varsity HS game. I am PU. Batter hits what is easily a stand up double. Partner button hooks and takes her to 2B. A throw was on the way although batter runner was easily safe standing up. Reasonable expectation was if anything a possible play at 2B if batter runner overran so partner held up near 2B as I moved into the 3B holding area..but the batter runner had other ideas and just kept going. F4 took throw from F9 and fired to F5. Since my partner was now chasing the batter runner I called him off and moved in to take call at 3B. She was out by a couple of strides.

[CecilOne]

Here is another version, copied not mine.

WHO'S GOT THIRD (of course, WHO HAS THIRD would be grammatically correct, and WHO COVERS THIRD correct for umpires)?
The answer isn't "I don't know"!
.................................................. ..........................

In two-person mechanics, there are SIX instances that are the BASE UMPIRE'S CALL:

1) batter-runner on a triple,

2) the last runner into third base,

3) a lone runner on fly ball advancement,

4) any return throw from the plate area, or cut-off by a player,

5) a steal or pickoff, and

6) the FIRST THROW only BY AN INFIELDER

Elaboration:

#6 means that the PLATE UMPIRE has the call at third on the "first to third" play when the runner breaks from second. It also means that with runners on first and second and a hard one hopper to left field, the plate umpire may very well have a FORCE OUT CALL at third base because that is NOT a first throw from an INFIELDER

#4 means that even though the plate umpire has moved up to the holding zone at the beginning of the play, if the throw toward home PULLS him/her back toward the plate area, the BASE UMPIRE has to take the subsequent play at third base

Pregame these coverages with your partner!

.................................................. ........................
Yes, some are redundant. As copied, not mine.