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Old Fri Apr 14, 2017, 08:28am
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NFHS: How Long Do You Wait?

Discussion over on FB concerning this case play from the NFHS Case Book:

Quote:
9.1.1 SITUATION N:

In the last of the seventh with two outs, the score tied and the bases loaded, B6 receives ball four to force R1 home. Because B6 assumes that the game is over, she fails to go to first and leaves the field. The ball is then held at first.

RULING: B6 is out and the run does not score. (8-6-7 Penalty; 8-3-11; 9-1-1 Exception d)
I'm not so sure why they chose to rule this as an appeal play. The BR is out for abandonment when "she fails to go to first and leaves the field." The PU should have called the out then, and not wait until the defense appeals by holding the ball at first base.

But the real issue that is being debated is this: Suppose the defense doesn't appeal since the winning run scored, and the BR doesn't go to first base to fulfill her required advance because she's at home celebrating the win. As the PU, what should you do? Do you just go ahead and leave as the home team celebrates and the visitors move off the field to set up for the post-game ritual? Or do you still have an obligation to stick around and wait to see if that BR will ever touch first, and if she doesn't, do you STILL wait until she finally enters dead ball territory to rule her out for abandonment, and set up for the eighth inning?

Remember that this situation is not one that requires an appeal to rule the out. So the fact that the infielders have left fair territory and the catcher has left her normal fielding position doesn't negate the fact that the BR is still liable for being ruled out for abandonment. If the defense had appealed that she failed to advance to first base while she was hanging around home plate in the celebration, I don't believe the umpire can rule her out because her advance to first is a base award due to Ball Four. The only way she can be ruled out for failing to advance is by entering DBT under high school rules.

What say you?
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Old Fri Apr 14, 2017, 10:09am
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I can see this turning into a big mess.

I think I would wait to see the reactions of the teams involved. If the defense starts acting like the game is over by going into their dugout and gathering their stuff, then I'm leaving. If they remain on the field because they or their coach knows the situation, then I'm going to hang out a bit longer to see what happens.

What I can envision is the defensive coach wanting to come ask about the situation while the ball is still live, ie., before the BR has neither touched first or entered DBT. I can't grant time at that point to talk to the coach, so I have to put up the stop sign. This action may tip off the offense that the BR needs to go touch first base. More the fault of the defensive coach, so I'm not as worried about that. About all the defense can do is wait to see what the B/R does.

So I guess the answer to Manny's question is that we wait as long as needed.....
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Old Fri Apr 14, 2017, 10:58am
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If she leaves live ball territory, ring her up and deal with the aftermath - they won't make that mistake twice.

If she doesn't, watch and wait. I had this happen once where BR waited to high five the runner coming to score, then jogged over to first to become the front of the line for the handshake. She touched first on accident, game over.

It generated a fun conversation in the locker room... what if she was NOT the front of the line, and suddenly we have 4-5 players in front of her, on the field, before she touches (or comes close enough that we can call it an appeallable miss, and then ignore when not appealled).

The consensus when this came up at our next meeting was to do just as described ... if the defense is oblivious and she never leaves the field, don't pick up the crappy end of the stick. But if she goes into the dugout before post-game handshakes start, ring her up.

Honestly ... this and similar situations have come up often enough that someone ought to codify it - they've not done a good job telling us what they would want us to do in a situation like this where the game appears to end but doesn't, and the only people who know it didn't were the umpires.
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Old Fri Apr 14, 2017, 11:52am
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If batter receives a walk, isn't the ball still alive? If so, the runners on base simply advance in anticipation of the batter going to 1st base. Run scores, batter goes to "out of play" area without touching 1st. Whether it's an appeal or not, it's not a force so it's a timing play if anything I would think. As soon as run scores, game over, batter is out in scorebook cuz she never reached 1st, she went into dead ball area. Is my logic wrong?
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Old Fri Apr 14, 2017, 01:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linknblue View Post
If batter receives a walk, isn't the ball still alive? If so, the runners on base simply advance in anticipation of the batter going to 1st base. Run scores, batter goes to "out of play" area without touching 1st. Whether it's an appeal or not, it's not a force so it's a timing play if anything I would think. As soon as run scores, game over, batter is out in scorebook cuz she never reached 1st, she went into dead ball area. Is my logic wrong?
Anytime the BR is retired at first base before she reaches it, it's not a timing play. No run can count when that out is the third out of the inning.
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Old Fri Apr 14, 2017, 02:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Honestly ... this and similar situations have come up often enough that someone ought to codify it - they've not done a good job telling us what they would want us to do in a situation like this where the game appears to end but doesn't, and the only people who know it didn't were the umpires.
If you write it, I'm sure some of us would review & edit.
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Old Fri Apr 14, 2017, 02:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linknblue View Post
If batter receives a walk, isn't the ball still alive? If so, the runners on base simply advance in anticipation of the batter going to 1st base. Run scores, batter goes to "out of play" area without touching 1st. Whether it's an appeal or not, it's not a force so it's a timing play if anything I would think. As soon as run scores, game over, batter is out in scorebook cuz she never reached 1st, she went into dead ball area. Is my logic wrong?
A third out at 1st is treated like a force out for scoring and appeal purposes.
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Old Fri Apr 14, 2017, 06:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
If she leaves live ball territory, ring her up and deal with the aftermath - they won't make that mistake twice.

If she doesn't, watch and wait. I had this happen once where BR waited to high five the runner coming to score, then jogged over to first to become the front of the line for the handshake. She touched first on accident, game over.

It generated a fun conversation in the locker room... what if she was NOT the front of the line, and suddenly we have 4-5 players in front of her, on the field, before she touches (or comes close enough that we can call it an appeallable miss, and then ignore when not appealled).

The consensus when this came up at our next meeting was to do just as described ... if the defense is oblivious and she never leaves the field, don't pick up the crappy end of the stick. But if she goes into the dugout before post-game handshakes start, ring her up.

Honestly ... this and similar situations have come up often enough that someone ought to codify it - they've not done a good job telling us what they would want us to do in a situation like this where the game appears to end but doesn't, and the only people who know it didn't were the umpires.
Then you'd call her out for being physically assisted by a teammate (the high 5) and play the 8th.
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Old Sat Apr 15, 2017, 11:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngump View Post
Then you'd call her out for being physically assisted by a teammate (the high 5) and play the 8th.
And since this is the home team that did this, keep thinking to yourself, "I parked my car facing OUT, right?"
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