Offensive Time Out

[josephrt1]

USA/ASA - If batter calls time to talk to a baserunner does it count as the charged offensive conference for that inning? I think the rule wording is ambiguous on this act.

CHARGED CONFERENCE: When a team representative requests a suspension of play or delays the game for the purpose of delivering a message to another team member, unless the pitcher is removed from the pitching position.

5.7.A. Offensive Conference: There shall be only one charged conference between team representatives and the batter, another team representative, and/or runners in an inning. The umpire shall not permit any such conferences in excess of one in an inning. [Note: this is the same wording in the Rule Supplement section.]

In both places it states "a team representative" and someone else. It also specifically defines the someone else as a batter, runner or other team representative. I'm probably overthinking this but charged timeout needs to involve a team representative and representatives don't seem to include players. Also, we allow catcher and pitcher or other defenders to confer without being charged, so I think batter and base-runner should not be charged. Only ever happened to me once and I did not charge it.

[BlueDevilRef]

I've never seen it and absent being faced with it here with a chance to consider what I would do, I bet I would have said no on the field. Just bc it would have seemed like such an odd request. Of course, there probably isn't any rule forbidding it and I would be wrong. Huh. Thought provoking one here.

[Umpire@1]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

USA/ASA - If batter calls time to talk to a baserunner does it count as the charged offensive conference for that inning? I think the rule wording is ambiguous on this act.

CHARGED CONFERENCE: When a team representative requests a suspension of play or delays the game for the purpose of delivering a message to another team member, unless the pitcher is removed from the pitching position.

5.7.A. Offensive Conference: There shall be only one charged conference between team representatives and the batter, another team representative, and/or runners in an inning. The umpire shall not permit any such conferences in excess of one in an inning. [Note: this is the same wording in the Rule Supplement section.]

In both places it states "a team representative" and someone else. It also specifically defines the someone else as a batter, runner or other team representative. I'm probably overthinking this but charged timeout needs to involve a team representative and representatives don't seem to include players. Also, we allow catcher and pitcher or other defenders to confer without being charged, so I think batter and base-runner should not be charged. Only ever happened to me once and I did not charge it.

In my opinion, it is no different then the first base person going to talk to the pitcher??

[teebob21]

Scenario: R1 and R3 on base. The offense has already used a conference this inning. R1 keeps missing her signs. The 3rd base coach tells R3 to call time and go tell R1 what's going on. R3 does so, and is granted time (rightly or wrongly). She leaves her position to talk to R1.

Would you rule this a charged offensive conference in ASA/USA?

Scenario: R1 and R3 on base. The offense has not used a conference this inning. R1 keeps missing her signs. The 3rd base coach tells R3 to call time and go tell R1 what's going on. R3 does so, and is granted time (rightly or wrongly). She leaves her position to talk to R1.

Is this a charged offensive conference?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Scenario: R1 and R3 on base. The offense has already used a conference this inning. R1 keeps missing her signs. The 3rd base coach tells R3 to call time and go tell R1 what's going on. R3 does so, and is granted time (rightly or wrongly). She leaves her position to talk to R1.

If I was aware the coach initiated the sequence of events, yes.

Odds are that knowing what I know, I will not grant the request for time.

Scenario: R1 and R3 on base. The offense has not used a conference this inning. R1 keeps missing her signs. The 3rd base coach tells R3 to call time and go tell R1 what's going on. R3 does so, and is granted time (rightly or wrongly). She leaves her position to talk to R1.

Is this a charged offensive conference?

Same answer.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Scenario: R1 and R3 on base. The offense has not used a conference this inning. R1 keeps missing her signs. The 3rd base coach tells R3 to call time and go tell R1 what's going on. R3 does so, and is granted time (rightly or wrongly). She leaves her position to talk to R1.

Is this a charged offensive conference?

Irish, Why not grant the time out and charge it?

[Andy]

My take is that a "team representative" is someone other than a player.
I would not charge a conference for a batter requesting time to confer with a base runner, just as a conference is not charged for the catcher requesting time to go speak with the pitcher.

I had this scenario a few years ago, it was an NFHS game, but the rule is the same. Team A has an all-everything pitcher with an injury. She is not in uniform and is not playing. While team A is on defense, time is requested and she (all-everything pitcher) comes out of the dugout to talk to the pitcher.

I did not charge a conference since she was not a "coach". Upon seeking feedback, I was told that I was wrong, that a conference should have been charged because at that time, she was not a player, but acting as a team representative.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Andy

My take is that a "team representative" is someone other than a player.
I would not charge a conference for a batter requesting time to confer with a base runner, just as a conference is not charged for the catcher requesting time to go speak with the pitcher.

I had this scenario a few years ago, it was an NFHS game, but the rule is the same. Team A has an all-everything pitcher with an injury. She is not in uniform and is not playing. While team A is on defense, time is requested and she (all-everything pitcher) comes out of the dugout to talk to the pitcher.

I did not charge a conference since she was not a "coach". Upon seeking feedback, I was told that I was wrong, that a conference should have been charged because at that time, she was not a player, but acting as a team representative.

To this side play, I would have charged, even if in uniform, if someone comes out of the dugout and confers with a player for anything other than a possible injury. At the very least, she is delivering a message from the coach.

As others have said, batter/baserunner is not a charged conference.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Irish, Why not grant the time out and charge it?

The coach used their conference and would be circumventing the rules using an active runner to pass along communication. If I charge a conference, the rule says the manager or team rep is ejected. I'd rather prevent that if possible by not permitting it to occur.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The coach used their conference and would be circumventing the rules using an active runner to pass along communication. If I charge a conference, the rule says the manager or team rep is ejected. I'd rather prevent that if possible by not permitting it to occur.

Second scenario:
"Scenario: R1 and R3 on base. The offense has not used a conference this inning. R1 keeps missing her signs. The 3rd base coach tells R3 to call time and go tell R1 what's going on. R3 does so, and is granted time (rightly or wrongly). She leaves her position to talk to R1."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Second scenario:
"Scenario: R1 and R3 on base. The offense has not used a conference this inning. R1 keeps missing her signs. The 3rd base coach tells R3 to call time and go tell R1 what's going on. R3 does so, and is granted time (rightly or wrongly). She leaves her position to talk to R1."

If there was a conference available, why would the coach send a runner to deliver a message?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If there was a conference available, why would the coach send a runner to deliver a message?

Because he wanted to use his/her conference for something else? Who knows what these coaches think sometimes.

The rules state that when a catcher comes over to the dugout to get advice before going to the pitcher to talk to her, that this would be a defensive-charged conference. I don't see any difference between that and the runner relaying coaching advice to another runner.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The rules state that when a catcher comes over to the dugout to get advice before going to the pitcher to talk to her, that this would be a defensive-charged conference. I don't see any difference between that and the runner relaying coaching advice to another runner.

Where can I find this in USA and/or NFHS?

Thanx.

[RKBUmp]

2007 ASA case book play 1-29. It was actually a charged conference the moment the catcher called time and approached to dugout to speak with the coach.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

2007 ASA case book play 1-29. It was actually a charged conference the moment the catcher called time and approached to dugout to speak with the coach.

I did read the case book play. The reference to 5-7-B is a little open to interpretation. RS #9 is much clearer, IMO.

If F1 has the ball in the circle, and F2, without requesting time, simply runs over to the closest part of the dugout to ask the coach something, is it a charged conference? There would be no violation of the pitcher's 20-second rule.