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Old Sun Nov 10, 2002, 02:27am
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At the rules clinic we had on Thursday, this question came up, but I disagree with the way it was answered. I want y'alls opinions.

New rule says that if B2 violates on the free throw, and then A1 violates, penalize only the first violation. Okay with BI on a free-throw now only a violation, you have this interesting scenario: B1 steps into the lane early, A2's shot hangs for a moment on the rim, and A3 steps and BI's. Do you count the basket?

Our commissioner (Howard Mayo) says yes. But that seems unbelievable. DeNucci? Anyone else?

(SNIP...SNIP...SNIP)

Heads up, everyone. I'm editting this as of Sunday afternoon. Howard called me today, and clarified what he said, which is that the basket DOES NOT count. A1 gets another shot, because of the violation by B1, but when A3 touches the ball, it becomes dead and no basket can be scored. This is not penalizing for the BI, but just pointing out that the ball was dead before it fell through, so there is no basket to count. Somehow, with all the noise and confusion at the clinic, I (and several others) mis-heard what he said. He asked me to correct it here, which I am very glad to do, especially since he's proving me right!

[Edited by rainmaker on Nov 10th, 2002 at 06:20 PM]
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Old Sun Nov 10, 2002, 03:02am
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Lightbulb Is A3 in a lane marked space?

Juulie,

Assuming that A3 was in a marked lane space, it is a violation on B2. It is assumed that the actions by B2 promted A3 to enter the lane. This in my opinion is a good change and an adaption of the NCAA rule.

About the Basket Inteference, I would think you would count the basket. You are not blowing the ball dead because of this new rule. You let it continue even if A3 steps in the lane, which will not be a violation at all under this senerieo. So unless there is a casebook play that covers this situation, I think the basket counts.

Peace
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Old Sun Nov 10, 2002, 03:46am
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Offensive BI on a free throw

Rut,
I must politely disagree. Rule 9-11 Penalty part 2 on page 56 clearly states, "If the violation is at a team's own basket, no points can be scored, ..."
Now rule 9-1 Penalty 4 states, "If there is a violation first by the free-thrower's opponent followed by the free thrower or a teammate:
1. If both offenders are in a marked lane-space, the second violation is ignored, ..."
However, this only pertains to violating the provisions in effect until the free throw hits the backboard or the rim. I don't believe this statement was meant to allow the offensive team to commit basket interference on a free throw without penalty. My proof lies in the Comments on the 2002-03 Rules Revisions starting on page 70:
"Double free-throw violations changed (9-1 pen):
This change establishes a new penalty for free throw LANE-LINE violations when a player (in a marked lane-space) violates followed by a second LANE-LINE violation by the opposite team by only penalizing the first infraction. ..."

Now we go look at rule 4-45 Violation. We find that BI by a teammate during a free throw is a type 1 violation, while lane-line violations are type 3. The new exception allows the shooting team to commit a type 3 violation during a free throw after the opposing team commits a type 3 violation. That is specified by the words "lane-line" in the comments.

So in your senario, Julie, A3 may enter the lane or leave a marked lane space after B3 violates without penalty. But may not commit basket interference or goaltending as those are type 1 violations. However, A3 did just that. So the correct call is to NOT count the basket and award a replacement free throw for the lane-line violation by team B.
In short, your interpreter goofed! You are right.
Always think for yourself.
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Old Sun Nov 10, 2002, 04:49am
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Thumbs up You are right.

Nevadaref,

While reading over this original question again, if A3 violates you could not count a basket on the basket that A is shooting at. You would of course wipe off the basket (duh!!!! ) no matter what. I was for some reason thinking of A3 as if they were on Team B. If that was the case, I think you would count the basket. But you cannot award points to A if A is the one that caused a BI.

Peace
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Old Sun Nov 10, 2002, 06:36am
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Re: Offensive BI on a free throw

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nevadaref
So in your senario, Julie, A3 may enter the lane or leave a marked lane space after B3 violates without penalty. But may not commit basket interference or goaltending as those are type 1 violations.

Great explanation...and I might add that basket interference, this year, is a violation that is not penalized with a technical foul while goaltending during a free throw still is a technical foul.

RD
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Old Sun Nov 10, 2002, 11:10am
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If B1 violates first by stepping into the lane, followed by a violation by A1 stepping into the lane, then the violation by A1 is ignored, by rule. However; if B1 steps into the lane (first) followed by A1 "backing out" of the lane space, is the second violation ignored ???? Comments??
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Old Sun Nov 10, 2002, 06:16pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by APHP
If B1 violates first by stepping into the lane, followed by a violation by A1 stepping into the lane, then the violation by A1 is ignored, by rule. However; if B1 steps into the lane (first) followed by A1 "backing out" of the lane space, is the second violation ignored ???? Comments??
If A1 is in a marked lane space and does something that would normally create a violation by itself, it is ignored because of the violation by B1 which happened first. The only violations by Team A would be by the shooter or by someone entering from a non-marked lane space (from outside the 3 point arc).
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Old Sun Nov 10, 2002, 07:29pm
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adding a reply so that this thread will move up to the top, and the editting I added will be seen.
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Old Tue Nov 12, 2002, 02:50am
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Rainmaker,
Here is the EXACT wording of the interpretation of your play directly from the NFHS website. http://www.nfhs.org



SITUATION 18: B1 illegally steps into the lane before A1's final free throw hits the rim. A2 then steps into the lane prematurely and then commits basket interference. RULING: The first infraction by the defensive player B1 does not end the free throw and is a "delayed" free-throw violation; the ball is still live. When A2 enters the lane prematurely, the violation is ignored. But when A2 commits basket interference, the ball becomes dead immediately and ends the free throw and no point can be scored. Therefore, the free throw is unsuccessful and A1 would be given a substitute throw. Play is resumed from the free-throw situation. (9-1-9 Pen 2b; 6-7-9; 4-20-3)
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