What's the call?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I read ASA 7.1-C(2) and NFHS 7-5-3-b, stating they may leave the on-deck circle to direct runners advancing to home plate, as permission to be there, and acting in the same function as a base coach. And, like a base coach, they cannot interfere.

Yet 8.7.O provides a specific exception from interference by a coach. No such exemptions exist for an ODB

But that permission to 1) be on the field, 2) leave the on-deck circle, and 3) perform an approved function tells me two things, at least:

A) Unlike the ASA case play referenced above, this person is somewhere they are permitted to be; not someone required to be in the dugout but affecting live ball play, and

B) How/why would we reference a blocked ball rule that applies to offensive items NOT permitted in live ball territory?

Well, that is not what the ASA rule states. A ball is blocked if it touches a person not engaged in the game. IMO, that is an active participant such as defensive player in the field, a runner, a batter-runner, a batter and the umpires. It does not include any person not required to be on in playable territory which includes coaches, ODB, bat person, ball person, bullpen occupants (if in playable territory), media, etc.

Absent a case play, or a specific rule citation I do not believe this is a dead ball scenario; the ODB has permission to be there, doing exactly what the ODB was doing, did nothing to interfere, did not interfere, and did nothing intentional to be considered even an attempt to interfere with the opportunity to make an out (or play). Acting in an approved (base coach) function, the offense shouldn't be penalized for the misplay by the defense.

That's my opinion, anyway; and I don't see a clear rule cite that contradicts.

For those not participating in the game, there are specific allowances for coaches and media personnel should the accidentally be contacted by a live ball. There are no such exception for the others I have noted. If they were considered "engaged" with the game, why is there a need for a specific rule to cover these exceptions?

And, like Steve, that is my opinion and I don't see a clear rule cite that contradicts.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

Rule in nfhs is 7-5-4-1. This rule says if no play is obvious, doesn't mention making an out. In my play, no play was obvious, however, should have placed runners back to bases at time of interference.

The way I learned about INT was that if called, the ball was immediately dead, and SOMEBODY was going to be out.

[BlueDevilRef]

The nfhs rule does not mention making "an out". Only mention is of an obvious play.

In this play, my goof was not calling ball dead when it hit on deck batter, regardless of an obvious play (runner closest to home would be out) or not (runners return), ball should have been declared dead. It was a good learning experience and one I'll not miss again.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

Base hit with runner at third. One out. Ball comes home on relay throw. Catcher misses throw and it rebounds toward on deck batter who is about 8 ft past plate giving direction to runner attempting to score. Ball hits on deck batter and stops there. Catcher picks it up as another runner scores.

Your call as plate umpire? Rule cite please

On a base hit, a runner at third will usually NOT need directions from the ODB.

The OP scenario throws in a surprise when we learn that "another runner" scores.

So presumably, there were more runners on base than just on third. Unless the runner on third was a turtle, the throw to home (relayed from an outfielder) was not intended for that runner.

Although I don't think ASA is a specific as NFHS, 3-6-6 states:
Only the batter, runner(s), on-deck batter, coaches in the coach's box, bat/ball shaggers or one of the nine players on defense are permitted to be outside the designated dugout/bench or designated warm-up areas.

To me, that indicates that an ODB is indeed "engaged in the game".

And I'll second the opinions that if a thrown ball had hit a coach who was directing his base runners, that would be no more of an INT call than a ball who has hit (or deflected into) the ODB.

For me it would have to go back to the interpretation of having committed an act of interference. Simply standing there is typically not that.

Now, occasionally, I'll have an ODB run out into fair territory to retrieve a discarded bat. That's a little different if s/he suddenly is in the way of a throw. THAT would likely be an INT call.

PS: I expect to hear about ball shaggers a la Dusty Baker's kid who found himself in the middle of a play. I think he ended up being scooped up by a player who was scoring. Mark Grace?

[BlueDevilRef]

Interesting to hear all the opinions on this. In the game, I told the defensive coach I saw it hit odb but it didn't affect anything do it was a play on. I am glad some agree that was a correct call. Not that it matters but coach just said, okay, just asking if you saw it hit her".

I've not checked the case book and its in my car right now. Will try to check it as well.