ASA - 1B Coach runs out on field during live ball to argue a call at 2B

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I do not care if I did know or did not know that the 1B Coach (an Asst. Coach) had been ejected in his team's two previous games (I would like to know how this Coach has not been been suspended but that is a discussion for another thread.) and it may be because I have gotten crotchety in my old age, but the instant he came running out on to the diamond during play to complain about my call, he is gone for his third straight game.

MTD, Sr.

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Unless coach has a specific question it is a waste of time to go to your part er just to appease a coach. All that does is have them coming out on the field on a fishing expedition on every close play they don't like. If you have all the elements of the play in front of you and have no question of anything missed do not go to your partners.

AMEN AMEN AMEN!!! ONE MILLION PERCENT. umps who ask for help on calls that have no business getting help are screwing the rest of us.

For me, as soon as I told him the ball was live an she didn't immediately tuck tail and head back to his box, he's gonna ride the lightening. Him maybe not realizing it was a live ball is the only benefit of doubt he should have got. Anything else past that would have been an ejection with me.

Ask Bobby Cox if your previous actions mean something on the field. You don't get any rope when you have been dumped two days in a row. And I can't believe tournament rules would have even allowed this jack hole back in the complex, let alone on the field.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

And I can't believe tournament rules would have even allowed this jack hole back in the complex, let alone on the field.

It was a national tournament and it is quite a task putting together a committee to do it properly since they need to be prepared to follow the code. It is easier to let him go out and get dumped again.

As previously noted, each game starts anew. OP was aware of this coach's antics as he had this team in a previous game, though the coach didn't last a half an inning.

[RKBUmp]

I realize each game is a new beginning, but obviously this particular assistant coach appears to have a real problem. Being as the head coach is responsible for the actions of their staff and team, at what point do you send the head coach packing along with the assistant?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

I realize each game is a new beginning, but obviously this particular assistant coach appears to have a real problem. Being as the head coach is responsible for the actions of their staff and team, at what point do you send the head coach packing along with the assistant?

I would find that very difficult to do as an umpire. If I was running the event and the same coach was ejected multiple times, at that point we, as a tourney staff, have an issue that needs to be addressed, but that is way above the role of an umpire.

I find it shocking as well that he was not suspended/banned from the event for multiple ejections.

I personally don't buy the entire it's too hard to set up a committee to do it properly argument. If it is done in advance, the committee is already made up. At that point the only tricky part is getting the committee together to be able to rule when needed. This could, depending on who is on the committee and the schedule of events, be a nightmare, but having the committee already set up should not be a problem at all.

[3afan]

UIC + TD = committee

[MD Longhorn]

I am 90% sure I would have ejected a coach immediately if I saw him charging the field during a live ball... but assuming I didn't...

Originally Posted by teebob21

The conversation:
Him, running: {unintelligible}
Me: [Giving a big, high one-handed stop sign while still watching the ball] NO, Coach! Wait until the ball's in the circle. It's live!

Just "NO!" with the stop sign is enough. You have a job to do. Three sentences with the coach is not that job.

Originally Posted by teebob21

Him, still coming: {rabble rabble grumble grumble}

Eject.

Originally Posted by teebob21

--Ball is possessed by F1...not quite into the circle, but no one's running. Close enough for me to pay attention to the coach as he's within a few feet of me. I see that neither partner has called Time.--
Me: Coach, you can't be out here. No one has called Time yet.
Him: I called time! (more words that I didn't really listen to)

Eject

Originally Posted by teebob21

Me: TIME! Coach, now the ball's in the circle. What can I do for you?
Him: {Bog-standard "How can you make that call?" coach complaint. I don't recall the actual words. He didn't think the fielder touched the bag before the runner.}
Me: No, sir, the out stands. The throw was high, as you said, but the fielder caught the ball and her left foot came down on the bag before the runner's left foot reached it. ( <-- I know for a fact that those were my actual words...this was the first time I've used such detail. Another umpire had talked about how specifying which foot was where can sometimes stop a coach in their tracks...provided the coach is willing to listen to what you have to say. This guy wasn't.)

If, for some reason, this coach is not already ejected... this conversation is WAY WAY WAY WAY WAY too long.

Originally Posted by teebob21

Him: You gotta go for help!

"Coach, I had the angle and the call. This conversation is over."

Originally Posted by teebob21

Me, pointing to my partners' positions as I talk: Coach, my first-base partner is behind the play, and our plate umpire is 85 feet away. I'm right here on top of it, and I could see all the elements: the ball, the glove, the fielder on the bag, and the runner's foot. She's out.

Again ... way way way too long.

Originally Posted by teebob21

Him: You're not going to go for help?
Me: No, sir.
Him: I can't believe you guys!

Eject.

Originally Posted by teebob21

Me: Sorry, sir.

This is you baiting him... don't do that.

Originally Posted by teebob21

Him, walking away: All you umpires have been rubbish all week!

Eject.

Originally Posted by teebob21

Me, giving another stop sign: PAT, KNOCK IT OFF!

Crap on a cracker... no umpire I've ever worked with would have given this guy all this rope and STILL given another warning... and the first name in a heated situation is almost always inappropriate.

Originally Posted by teebob21

Him: {hesitation and surprise that I know his first name} No....uh....YOU knock it off! {keeps walking away}

Seriously... you didn't eject here either... I have no words.

Originally Posted by teebob21

I posted this play for conversation here because the feedback I got after the game was a surprise to me. I thought I handled it well; kept the coach in the game and life went on. The feedback I got was that I looked animated and aggressive during the discussion (which is totally possible as I gave two stop signs and pointed while talking) and that I should have appeased him by going for help in order to defuse the situation (which I 100% disagree with as I had all the elements with 99.9%+ certainty).

Obviously ... I agree with those telling you you didn't handle it well. Sorry.

[BlueDevilRef]

National tourney or not, by most assc rules be it ASA, USSSA, whatever...one ejection is automatically next game as well. Two in two days would be the whole tournament, or should have been anyways

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

National tourney or not, by most assc rules be it ASA, USSSA, whatever...one ejection is automatically next game as well. Two in two days would be the whole tournament, or should have been anyways

Well, you see, there is this little thing called the ASA Code that dictates the actions of authorities in championship play. Too many people, umpires and coaches alike, think the way it is done, "at home" is the official way.

And you want to penalize an individual for breaking the rules by doing the same thing?

[BlueDevilRef]

Full disclosure that I don't do ASA, for no specific reasons. But, in USSSA and NFHS, I would not be speaking of breaking a rule. Two ejections two straight days would be done for tournament. Unless something changes in a national tournament

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

Full disclosure that I don't do ASA, for no specific reasons. But, in USSSA and NFHS, I would not be speaking of breaking a rule. Two ejections two straight days would be done for tournament. Unless something changes in a national tournament

Whatever the consequences are for the coach under NFHS are set by the state high school league or conference, not the national body. There are no NFHS national tournaments.

IDK if USSSA has a code that governs how such things are handled at their national tournaments, but ASA does. That was Mike's point.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

Full disclosure that I don't do ASA, for no specific reasons. But, in USSSA and NFHS, I would not be speaking of breaking a rule. Two ejections two straight days would be done for tournament. Unless something changes in a national tournament

Under NFHS rules with the MHSAA ejection protocol the coach would not be around to get a second ejection if this were high school. Once a coach is ejected he is ejected from the remainder of games that day, plus the next day of competition. I do believe there is also a rule in Michigan that two ejections during the season makes a coach ineligible for the post-season. I think the limit is 3 for a player.