Sick player

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

My question is did I even have rule to back me if I felt that this illness merited the withdrawal of the player? This wasn't concussion oriented and for a moment I thought that I needed to do something. But would I be overstepping my authority? Anything to back me?

A few years ago at the 18u Champions Cup (ASA) the pitcher from the home team got ear-hold with a mid 60 MPH pitch. She stayed down for a few moments got up looking shaky and was escorted to 1st base by the coach. She told the coach that she had a headache and was dizzy.

At this point I informed the coach that the player would need to be replaced as I felt that she might be Concussed. The coach did not want to pull his Starting pitcher and kept saying she would be alright. The coach protested my ruling which I was expecting and wanted. When the UIC came over he stated that I cannot make the coach replace his player even if she had a concussion and reinstated her.

The reason I wanted the protest was to protect myself if something more happened to her and we ended up in court.

Originally Posted by teebob21

Injured Player -- ASA 4-10 & RS #29 (paraphrased): When, in the judgment of the umpire, a player requires immediate attention, a dead ball shall be called so that first aid can be administered.

This is for a live ball situation when a player is injured and in the Umpires judgment the player needs immediate attention.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

A few years ago ... the UIC ... stated that I cannot make the coach replace his player even if she had a concussion...

I'd bet the response from the UIC would be different today.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I'd bet the response from the UIC would be different today.

No as ASA does not have a rule that allows for an umpire to pull a player that might be hurt.

[chapmaja]

We had this discussion at our state clinic a couple years ago.

ASA does not have a rule that allows you to pull a player (exception, concussion). What we were told is that you need to document everything if you feel a player is not fit to continue in a same with non-concussion symptoms. Document exactly what is said to the coach and when. Document what is said to other umpires/crew members/UIC. Document exactly what you witnessed. The key part was that you need to do this immediately when it happens. The reason for doing this is two fold. One, you won't forget what is said. Two (and more important), this should get the hint across to the coaches (and parents), that this player should not be in the game.

One of our umpires actually had a situation with a serious injury and he did stop the game, refusing to umpire until the injured player was removed. The player in question slide into 2nd base and immediately grabbed his hand in pain. He said he was going to stay in the game, but decided to take off his batting glove. When he did (it was blood soaked by this time), the middle finger was obviously broken with exposed bone. The player insisted he was fine, but the umpire (who is a nurse) knew better. He refused to let the game continue until the player left the game (which meant they had to play shorthanded).

In that case he felt player safety trumped anything that could come from a protest over his decisions.

The point I took from it, is if worst comes to worst, I may not have the authority to stop the game from continuing, but I would rather have to deal with being a bad umpire for not following the rules, rather than have someone die on my field.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

No as ASA does not have a rule that allows for an umpire to pull a player that might be hurt.

Minnesota law mandates concussion protocol training for all coaches and officials of youth sports. It further states the following:

(d) A coach or official shall remove a youth athlete from participating in any youth athletic activity when the youth athlete:
(1) exhibits signs, symptoms, or behaviors consistent with a concussion; or
(2) is suspected of sustaining a concussion.
(e) When a coach or official removes a youth athlete from participating in a youth athletic activity because of a concussion, the youth athlete may not return to the activity until the youth athlete:
(1) no longer exhibits signs, symptoms, or behaviors consistent with a concussion; and
(2) is evaluated by a provider trained and experienced in evaluating and managing concussions and the provider gives the youth athlete written permission to again participate in the activity.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Minnesota law mandates concussion protocol training for all coaches and officials of youth sports. It further states the following:

And IMO it is inappropriate to place an umpire/referee in that position.

[Altor]

Ohio's law is even worse. Once removed for a suspected concussion, the youth cannot return to play for the rest of the day...even if cleared by a physician. They cannot participate in any contest or practice on the days after until cleared by a physician.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by Altor

Ohio's law is even worse. Once removed for a suspected concussion, the youth cannot return to play for the rest of the day...even if cleared by a physician. They cannot participate in any contest or practice on the days after until cleared by a physician.

I wouldn't say worse, though it is admittedly more blunt. Given the relative risks of a very small % of unconcussed players missing the rest of the day vs. the much more dangerous risk of early return, I'm fine with it. It's not like we're being asked to diagnose anything or interfere/take over from medical personnel - just that if we see it, the discretion is out of our hands, they have to go see medical personnel and can't come back that day. Again, a blunt instrument - but it does mitigate the rare but potential possibility of a trainer being unduly pressured into a same-day return.

In all the years we've had this law, I've used it a grand total of once - in a youth football game with daddy coaches. It simply isn't an issue for us in school-based athletics with better trained coaches and often on-site trainers.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Minnesota law mandates concussion protocol training for all coaches and officials of youth sports. It further states the following:

California only has Concussion mandates for school sponsored sports.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And IMO it is inappropriate to place an umpire/referee in that position.

The law clearly states that it "does not create any additional liability". In other words, it is intended as additional protection for the youth athlete, not additional responsibility for the officials. If an official recognizes symptoms of concussion, he can act. If he does not (or merely chooses not to act) there is no additional liability than would have otherwise been there under existing law. The law does mandate concussion training for all coaches and officials, and that the training be repeated periodically (every three years, I think...).

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

California only has Concussion mandates for school sponsored sports.

The MN law applies to "any municipality, business, or nonprofit organization that organizes a youth athletic activity for which an activity fee is charged" as well as to schools.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

The law clearly states that it "does not create any additional liability". In other words, it is intended as additional protection for the youth athlete, not additional responsibility for the officials. If an official recognizes symptoms of concussion, he can act. If he does not (or merely chooses not to act) there is no additional liability than would have otherwise been there under existing law. The law does mandate concussion training for all coaches and officials, and that the training be repeated periodically (every three years, I think...).

To start, the law can state whatever, it cannot prevent legal action against anyone.

As an umpire, I am not medically trained nor an agent of the state and as such accept zero responsibility for the care of a minor when there are legal guardians and/or adults whom have entrusted with the responsibility for the well-being of that child.

I'm sure many will consider my statement as callous. I consider it being a responsible adult who expects other adults to acknowledge and act accordingly as it pertains to their accepted responsibilities.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

A few years ago at the 18u Champions Cup (ASA) the pitcher from the home team got ear-hold with a mid 60 MPH pitch. She stayed down for a few moments got up looking shaky and was escorted to 1st base by the coach. She told the coach that she had a headache and was dizzy.

At this point I informed the coach that the player would need to be replaced as I felt that she might be Concussed. The coach did not want to pull his Starting pitcher and kept saying she would be alright. The coach protested my ruling which I was expecting and wanted. When the UIC came over he stated that I cannot make the coach replace his player even if she had a concussion and reinstated her.

The reason I wanted the protest was to protect myself if something more happened to her and we ended up in court.


This is for a live ball situation when a player is injured and in the Umpires judgment the player needs immediate attention.

You did exactly the correct thing. By making your decision, and forcing the protest, you did what you could to CYA. Yes, a situation like that could end up in court, but I would rather have the knowledge that I attempted to do the right thing and was over ruled, than not do what I knew was right and have my butt be on the line.

Thankfully in over 20 years of officiating multiple sports, I have only had two concussions for participants. (I am knocking on wood as I type this).