Sick player

[Little Jimmy]

USSSA rules (all rule sets welcome). I'm in the field. Pitcher is getting rocked on a very warm day. Each hit takes its toll on her and at some point she looks like she really is ill. She waves for coach who comes out with Mother and gives her an inhaler. After a moment or so of using it, she hands it back to mom who walks away with coach. In my judgement, nothing has changed. Pitcher is woozy, shaking her head, starting to cry. I say to coach she still doesn't look right, but he just waves me off with mom just shaking her head next to him. Just when I think I need to interject myself more, pitcher drops to her knees bringing out coach/mom and finally she is replaced.

My question is did I even have rule to back me if I felt that this illness merited the withdrawal of the player? This wasn't concussion oriented and for a moment I thought that I needed to do something. But would I be overstepping my authority? Anything to back me?

[teebob21]

Injured Player -- ASA 4-10 & RS #29 (paraphrased): When, in the judgment of the umpire, a player requires immediate attention, a dead ball shall be called so that first aid can be administered.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Injured Player -- ASA 4-10 & RS #29 (paraphrased): When, in the judgment of the umpire, a player requires immediate attention, a dead ball shall be called so that first aid can be administered.

Stretching "injury" and that rule's point is being ok to interrupt a play.
But then, player safety is a priority, too late to research tonight.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

USSSA rules (all rule sets welcome). I'm in the field. Pitcher is getting rocked on a very warm day. Each hit takes its toll on her and at some point she looks like she really is ill. She waves for coach who comes out with Mother and gives her an inhaler. After a moment or so of using it, she hands it back to mom who walks away with coach. In my judgement, nothing has changed. Pitcher is woozy, shaking her head, starting to cry. I say to coach she still doesn't look right, but he just waves me off with mom just shaking her head next to him. Just when I think I need to interject myself more, pitcher drops to her knees bringing out coach/mom and finally she is replaced.

My question is did I even have rule to back me if I felt that this illness merited the withdrawal of the player? This wasn't concussion oriented and for a moment I thought that I needed to do something. But would I be overstepping my authority? Anything to back me?

Is everything you do a TWP?

[Little Jimmy]

Understood that I can stop the game for medical attention. It was when both coach and mom seemingly were letting a girl who was obviously not in any condition to play continue that I wondered if I had any rule book authority in the matter.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

Understood that I can stop the game for medical attention. It was when both coach and mom seemingly were letting a girl who was obviously not in any condition to play continue that I wondered if I had any rule book authority in the matter.

I remember a game when a catcher took a foul ball in the mask hard enough that she could not stand up, obvious concussion symptom. She left the game. Later that day, I saw her playing OF on another field. Told the UIC and he went to her coach. Saw her leave that game, but no idea if an order or persuasion; probably something strong knowing that UIC. The coach was her father.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

My question is did I even have rule to back me if I felt that this illness merited the withdrawal of the player? This wasn't concussion oriented and for a moment I thought that I needed to do something. But would I be overstepping my authority? Anything to back me?

A few years ago at the 18u Champions Cup (ASA) the pitcher from the home team got ear-hold with a mid 60 MPH pitch. She stayed down for a few moments got up looking shaky and was escorted to 1st base by the coach. She told the coach that she had a headache and was dizzy.

At this point I informed the coach that the player would need to be replaced as I felt that she might be Concussed. The coach did not want to pull his Starting pitcher and kept saying she would be alright. The coach protested my ruling which I was expecting and wanted. When the UIC came over he stated that I cannot make the coach replace his player even if she had a concussion and reinstated her.

The reason I wanted the protest was to protect myself if something more happened to her and we ended up in court.

Originally Posted by teebob21

Injured Player -- ASA 4-10 & RS #29 (paraphrased): When, in the judgment of the umpire, a player requires immediate attention, a dead ball shall be called so that first aid can be administered.

This is for a live ball situation when a player is injured and in the Umpires judgment the player needs immediate attention.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

A few years ago ... the UIC ... stated that I cannot make the coach replace his player even if she had a concussion...

I'd bet the response from the UIC would be different today.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I'd bet the response from the UIC would be different today.

No as ASA does not have a rule that allows for an umpire to pull a player that might be hurt.

[chapmaja]

We had this discussion at our state clinic a couple years ago.

ASA does not have a rule that allows you to pull a player (exception, concussion). What we were told is that you need to document everything if you feel a player is not fit to continue in a same with non-concussion symptoms. Document exactly what is said to the coach and when. Document what is said to other umpires/crew members/UIC. Document exactly what you witnessed. The key part was that you need to do this immediately when it happens. The reason for doing this is two fold. One, you won't forget what is said. Two (and more important), this should get the hint across to the coaches (and parents), that this player should not be in the game.

One of our umpires actually had a situation with a serious injury and he did stop the game, refusing to umpire until the injured player was removed. The player in question slide into 2nd base and immediately grabbed his hand in pain. He said he was going to stay in the game, but decided to take off his batting glove. When he did (it was blood soaked by this time), the middle finger was obviously broken with exposed bone. The player insisted he was fine, but the umpire (who is a nurse) knew better. He refused to let the game continue until the player left the game (which meant they had to play shorthanded).

In that case he felt player safety trumped anything that could come from a protest over his decisions.

The point I took from it, is if worst comes to worst, I may not have the authority to stop the game from continuing, but I would rather have to deal with being a bad umpire for not following the rules, rather than have someone die on my field.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

A few years ago at the 18u Champions Cup (ASA) the pitcher from the home team got ear-hold with a mid 60 MPH pitch. She stayed down for a few moments got up looking shaky and was escorted to 1st base by the coach. She told the coach that she had a headache and was dizzy.

At this point I informed the coach that the player would need to be replaced as I felt that she might be Concussed. The coach did not want to pull his Starting pitcher and kept saying she would be alright. The coach protested my ruling which I was expecting and wanted. When the UIC came over he stated that I cannot make the coach replace his player even if she had a concussion and reinstated her.

The reason I wanted the protest was to protect myself if something more happened to her and we ended up in court.


This is for a live ball situation when a player is injured and in the Umpires judgment the player needs immediate attention.

You did exactly the correct thing. By making your decision, and forcing the protest, you did what you could to CYA. Yes, a situation like that could end up in court, but I would rather have the knowledge that I attempted to do the right thing and was over ruled, than not do what I knew was right and have my butt be on the line.

Thankfully in over 20 years of officiating multiple sports, I have only had two concussions for participants. (I am knocking on wood as I type this).

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

No as ASA does not have a rule that allows for an umpire to pull a player that might be hurt.

Minnesota law mandates concussion protocol training for all coaches and officials of youth sports. It further states the following:

(d) A coach or official shall remove a youth athlete from participating in any youth athletic activity when the youth athlete:
(1) exhibits signs, symptoms, or behaviors consistent with a concussion; or
(2) is suspected of sustaining a concussion.
(e) When a coach or official removes a youth athlete from participating in a youth athletic activity because of a concussion, the youth athlete may not return to the activity until the youth athlete:
(1) no longer exhibits signs, symptoms, or behaviors consistent with a concussion; and
(2) is evaluated by a provider trained and experienced in evaluating and managing concussions and the provider gives the youth athlete written permission to again participate in the activity.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Minnesota law mandates concussion protocol training for all coaches and officials of youth sports. It further states the following:

And IMO it is inappropriate to place an umpire/referee in that position.

[Altor]

Ohio's law is even worse. Once removed for a suspected concussion, the youth cannot return to play for the rest of the day...even if cleared by a physician. They cannot participate in any contest or practice on the days after until cleared by a physician.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by Altor

Ohio's law is even worse. Once removed for a suspected concussion, the youth cannot return to play for the rest of the day...even if cleared by a physician. They cannot participate in any contest or practice on the days after until cleared by a physician.

I wouldn't say worse, though it is admittedly more blunt. Given the relative risks of a very small % of unconcussed players missing the rest of the day vs. the much more dangerous risk of early return, I'm fine with it. It's not like we're being asked to diagnose anything or interfere/take over from medical personnel - just that if we see it, the discretion is out of our hands, they have to go see medical personnel and can't come back that day. Again, a blunt instrument - but it does mitigate the rare but potential possibility of a trainer being unduly pressured into a same-day return.

In all the years we've had this law, I've used it a grand total of once - in a youth football game with daddy coaches. It simply isn't an issue for us in school-based athletics with better trained coaches and often on-site trainers.