A few from last night.

[chapmaja]

Couple from last night's JV softball games.

First, the oddest of the oddball plays was a straight steal attempt of home plate. I've seen it in baseball a few times, but this was a straight steal attempt of home plate. She was off with the pitch and almost scored because the catcher was as shocked as everyone else that the girl attempted it. I think she was trying to leave early to get called out, but mistimed leaving early and left legally. I have never seen the straight steal attempt of home. How many have seen this happen in your fastpitch games. (Not a passed ball/WP, we had plenty of those yesterday).

Second, what do you do in this situation. We have a local rule no pitch is thrown after official sunset. (Yesterday 8:31). After 3 innings of the second game of the DH we are 9 minutes left on the time clock (1:45 time limit, if that say how the games were going). We have no legal reason to call the game prior to the sunset time, so we let the coaches know again we are playing until sunset time and no pitch will be thrown after that time (they had been told prior to both games and it is an area rule). The scoreboard operator starts going ballistic at us for not ending the game. She is yelling and screaming about it being too cold and "there is no way to get the inning in, so why start it."

What do you do in this situation both with the way the game was going (3 innings in an hour and a half) and with the scoreboard operator. I'm pretty sure I did not handle it properly, but I was in no mood to deal with that crap since she was complaining about being cold while sitting in a room with a heater, while we (umpires and players) were on the field where it was 45 degrees if that.

Third, what about heaters in the dugout. The dugouts at this school have electricity. The home team brought an electric heater to keep in the dugout. The visiting team had the same electrical hookups, but did not bring a heater.

Do we have any issue?

For the record, the team was instructed to keep the bats away from the heater (when they asked about it before game 1), so they were at the opposite end of the dugout from the heat. This avoided any issues with someone accusing them of using a bat warmer and altering the bats.

Finally. Ground ball to 3rd base. F5 throws to F2 who drops the ball. Prior to the batter - runner touching 1st base, F2 uses her bear hand to grab the ball, but leaves her hand around the ball which is still resting on the ground. After the BR touches first base, she cleanly picks the ball up off the ground with said bare hand. My B/U calls the BR out. The OC comes out and wants clarification (to argue the call). He comes over to me and asks me if I had anything different. I don't, I have an out. The coach then wants to know why this isn't the same as the ball her F2 dropped previously, which was clearly not a catch. He explained that in both instances it wasn't a catch. In this instance F2 gained possession of the ball before the BR touched first, thus meeting the definition of an out at first base.

The closest reference I can find to this in the casebook is 2.9.5 Situation C. Even those the turn of the ball was up showing control after the BR touched first, the establishment of controlled was deemed to be before the BR reached first. Does anyone have anything different.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

...Second, what do you do in this situation. We have a local rule no pitch is thrown after official sunset. (Yesterday 8:31). After 3 innings of the second game of the DH we are 9 minutes left on the time clock (1:45 time limit, if that say how the games were going). We have no legal reason to call the game prior to the sunset time, so we let the coaches know again we are playing until sunset time and no pitch will be thrown after that time (they had been told prior to both games and it is an area rule). The scoreboard operator starts going ballistic at us for not ending the game. She is yelling and screaming about it being too cold and "there is no way to get the inning in, so why start it."

Was she just being annoying or actually disrupting the game?

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Finally. Ground ball to 3rd base. F5 throws to F2 who drops the ball. Prior to the batter - runner touching 1st base, F2 uses her bear hand to grab the ball, but leaves her hand around the ball which is still resting on the ground. After the BR touches first base, she cleanly picks the ball up off the ground with said bare hand. My B/U calls the BR out. The OC comes out and wants clarification (to argue the call). He comes over to me and asks me if I had anything different. I don't, I have an out. The coach then wants to know why this isn't the same as the ball her F2 dropped previously, which was clearly not a catch. He explained that in both instances it wasn't a catch. In this instance F2 gained possession of the ball before the BR touched first, thus meeting the definition of an out at first base.

The closest reference I can find to this in the casebook is 2.9.5 Situation C. Even those the turn of the ball was up showing control after the BR touched first, the establishment of controlled was deemed to be before the BR reached first. Does anyone have anything different.

If the ball is touching the ground at the time the BR touches 1B, I would not have an out.

[jmkupka]

Sounds similar to the scenario where, with bases loaded & 1 out, batter bunts and the ball settles on top of HP. F2 picks up the ball with her bare hand and fires to 1B in time. 3 outs?

Can't find the thread right now, but it was an amusing debate whether the bare hand picking up the ball showed enough control in itself to cause the out at home.

[BlueDevilRef]

If ball is touching ground, then no out, ball is on the ground.

With the heaters, I actually had this once. It was with box fans, one team had them and other didn't. The "offended" team wanted me to make the other team shut off the fans. I said no and advised I could direct them to the closest store to buy a couple of fans. Otherwise, I would not be involved in that.

And sounds like your JV is played on its own night by itself. Here it just follows our varsity game and is rarely anything more than a short 3/3/3 or 3/3/5. That said, I would, even in a varsity game, inform anyone who was not required to be there that they can leave anytime they please. And if she was required to be there i.e. Getting paid....,suck it up and be quiet.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Finally. Ground ball to 3rd base. F5 throws to F2 who drops the ball. Prior to the batter - runner touching 1st base, F2 uses her bear hand to grab the ball, but leaves her hand around the ball which is still resting on the ground. After the BR touches first base, she cleanly picks the ball up off the ground with said bare hand. My B/U calls the BR out. In this instance F2 gained possession of the ball before the BR touched first, thus meeting the definition of an out at first base.

The closest reference I can find to this in the casebook is 2.9.5 Situation C. Even those the turn of the ball was up showing control after the BR touched first, the establishment of controlled was deemed to be before the BR reached first. Does anyone have anything different.

In NFHS, ball in control, even if touching ground, even if not lifted until after the runner passes, is control and therefore an out in the OP.
Other rules require the lift before the runner passes.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

The OC comes out and wants clarification (to argue the call). He comes over to me and asks me if I had anything different. I don't, I have an out.

If you mean the OC came to you, then sorry, only the calling umpire should discuss.
If you mean your partner (whom you don't own), then a more specific question is needed. Such as:
1) did you see the fielder get control before the runner passed?
2) is the rule about control on the ground that it counts if lifted cleanly after ward

[CecilOne]

Scoreboards and scoreboard operators are not part of the game.

[illinoisbluezeb]

NFHS
2.9.5 SITUATION C: F3 secures a thrown ball while it is in contact with the ground and her hand is on top of the ball. F3 turns her hand over so the ball is facing upward
(a) before;
or (b) after the batter-runner touches first base.
RULING:
In both (a) and (b) the batter-runner is out. F3 demonstrated control of the thrown ball by turning it upward. COMMENT: Umpires must determine if the fielder had control of the ball before the runner touched the base. This is a similar situation to the umpire asking to "see the ball" after a tag has been made. (2-9-5f)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Finally. Ground ball to 3rd base. F5 throws to F2 who drops the ball. Prior to the batter - runner touching 1st base, F2 uses her bear hand to grab the ball, but leaves her hand around the ball which is still resting on the ground. After the BR touches first base, she cleanly picks the ball up off the ground with said bare hand. My B/U calls the BR out. The OC comes out and wants clarification (to argue the call). He comes over to me and asks me if I had anything different. I don't, I have an out. The coach then wants to know why this isn't the same as the ball her F2 dropped previously, which was clearly not a catch. He explained that in both instances it wasn't a catch. In this instance F2 gained possession of the ball before the BR touched first, thus meeting the definition of an out at first base.

The closest reference I can find to this in the casebook is 2.9.5 Situation C. Even those the turn of the ball was up showing control after the BR touched first, the establishment of controlled was deemed to be before the BR reached first. Does anyone have anything different.

That is one fast catcher

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That is one fast catcher

She was, but my typing was faster, thus I made a mistake of F2 instead of F3.