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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 06:24am
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Licked Fingers & Others...

Question 1 - When a pitcher licks her fingers and goes directly to the ball, 6-1-1 and 6-2-2 (and the dead ball table) tells us to immediately call an illegal pitch (before the pitch is thrown) but use the delayed dead ball signal??? Am I reading this correctly?

Question 2 - There is an umpire in our league that insists on warning the pitchers that lick their fingers for "defacing the ball" and threatens ejections if they continue. Besides calling an illegal pitch as found in 6-2-2, I can't find anything that supports this in the case or rule book.

Question 3 - With the recent implementation of the "number system" of signs in our area, it's obvious that many pitchers are not taking or simulate the taking of signs while on the rubber. They stand behind the rubber, the coach calls the number, they check their armband then step forward to engage the pitching plate. Is this picking buggers or is it something that needs to be called?
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:05am
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In #1, yes, it is delayed bc the offense can always hit an illegal pitch.

#2-I don't know of a rule that would allow for ejection in this case. I'd get direction on it from assignor and probably let that guy die on that hill alone. That is pretty far fetched
#3-I would just talk to player and coach about it. Simple fix is for her to step on rubber and take the sign.
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:44am
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BlueDevil covered 1 and 2. I need a bit more information in order to address 3.

Is the pitcher stepping onto the pitchers plate and immediately going into her pitching motion? If so, then this is illegal and needs to be called.

Even if she already has her "signal" or knows what she is going to throw, she must step onto the PP, Pause with her hands separated, and look at the catcher.

The purpose of this piece of the pitching rule has nothing to do with where she actually gets her signal from, it is for the batter to know that she is getting into position to pitch.
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:51am
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
BlueDevil covered 1 and 2. I need a bit more information in order to address 3.

Is the pitcher stepping onto the pitchers plate and immediately going into her pitching motion? If so, then this is illegal and needs to be called.

Even if she already has her "signal" or knows what she is going to throw, she must step onto the PP, Pause with her hands separated, and look at the catcher.

The purpose of this piece of the pitching rule has nothing to do with where she actually gets her signal from, it is for the batter to know that she is getting into position to pitch.
Why do we add "look at the catcher"? The rule requires a pause for batter's to know timing, we acknowledge she can get the signal from anywhere (even multiple signals from multiple places to lessen "stealing" the signal), and even that the signal can be verbal. With all the being the case, how do we equate "take or simulate taking" to require looking at the catcher?
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:57am
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Pitchers do NOT have to actually take the sign on the pitching plate, just simulate doing it. Any PAUSE on the plate with hands separated is interpreted and accepted as SIMULATING. It's just about not deceiving the batter with a quick pitch, stepping on and pitching all at once.
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 12:39pm
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Why do we add "look at the catcher"? The rule requires a pause for batter's to know timing, we acknowledge she can get the signal from anywhere (even multiple signals from multiple places to lessen "stealing" the signal), and even that the signal can be verbal. With all the being the case, how do we equate "take or simulate taking" to require looking at the catcher?
Fed requires taking or simulating taking the sign from the catcher. 6-1-1b.
ASA only requires taking or simulating taking a sign, but doesn't specify from where.
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 12:40pm
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Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef View Post
In #1, yes, it is delayed bc the offense can always hit an illegal pitch.
But according to the case book the umpire is to "declare the ball dead immediately" - the word immediately doesn't seem to allow time for the pitcher to then go through all the steps and release the pitch.

So, if she licks her fingers and begins the process of pitching, do I kill it or let her throw it?
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 01:30pm
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Originally Posted by blueump View Post
But according to the case book the umpire is to "declare the ball dead immediately" - the word immediately doesn't seem to allow time for the pitcher to then go through all the steps and release the pitch.

So, if she licks her fingers and begins the process of pitching, do I kill it or let her throw it?
CALLING an illegal pitch immediately (or declaring) is not the same as immediate dead ball. See 6.1.1 penalty, NFHS.
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 01:38pm
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
CALLING an illegal pitch immediately (or declaring) is not the same as immediate dead ball. See 6.1.1 penalty, NFHS.
He was quoting the casebook play, not the rule. Casebook says dead ball immediately
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 02:33pm
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Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
He was quoting the casebook play, not the rule. Casebook says dead ball immediately
Rule book supercedes the casebook, no?
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 03:20pm
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Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob View Post
Rule book supercedes the casebook, no?
Unless it is giving interpretation/direction of how to apply the rule.

Personally, I believe this to be a completely useless rule left over from 20th century baseball. Licking one's fingers and touching the ball has zero effect to the ball or pitch.
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:30pm
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Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob View Post
Fed requires taking or simulating taking the sign from the catcher. 6-1-1b.
ASA only requires taking or simulating taking a sign, but doesn't specify from where.
OK; again, what says she has to look at the catcher to simulate to take a signal? Can the catcher verbalize a signal? Not saying she has to, but if she COULD, then looking at the catcher, whether you see, hear, or she uses telemetry, is NOT a rule requirement.

The PAUSE after stepping on and engaging the pitcher's plate, and before bringing the hands together is the only absolute rule requirement I see in NFHS, ASA, and most clearly in NCAA. And the only part that makes sense to me.
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 09:34pm
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Funny thing is, had this exact situation tonight. Never even really discussed it previously in a game but partner wanted to enforce it. For some reason, the coach got upset and after being difficult about it, got herself restricted to dugout for the game. It's a simple rule. I still can't figure out why she was upset. Just thought it interesting we have discussed it here and then it happens in a game.
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Old Tue Apr 19, 2016, 10:34pm
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
OK; again, what says she has to look at the catcher to simulate to take a signal? Can the catcher verbalize a signal? Not saying she has to, but if she COULD, then looking at the catcher, whether you see, hear, or she uses telemetry, is NOT a rule requirement.

The PAUSE after stepping on and engaging the pitcher's plate, and before bringing the hands together is the only absolute rule requirement I see in NFHS, ASA, and most clearly in NCAA. And the only part that makes sense to me.
If they would just say that AND enforce it.
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Old Wed Apr 20, 2016, 09:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
If they would just say that AND enforce it.
What, change a rule be make more sense?????
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