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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 21, 2016, 11:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Using, at a starting point, that NFHS bases its mechanics on ASA mechanics, our (MTD, Jr., and me) local ASA UIC described how to set up in the B and C positions.

B Position (Runner on 1B): Draw a line that is parallel to the First Base Foul Line such that it is tangent to the Pitcher's Circle on the First Base side of the Circle. The BU should set up on this line such that he/she has as good view of F1's feet and the Runner on 1B. He calls this position the B1 Position.


C Position (Runner on 2B or Runners on 1B and 2B): Draw a line that is parallel to the Third Base Foul Line such that it is tangent to the Pitcher's Circle on the Second Base side of the Circle. The BU should set up on this line such that he/she has a good view of F1's feet and the Runner(s). He calls this position the C2 Position.


C Position (Runner on 3B, Runners on 2B and 3B, or Runners on 1B, 2B, and 3B): Draw a line that is parallel to the Third Base Foul Line such that it is tangent to the Pitcher's Circle on the Third Base side of the Circle. The BU should set up on this line such that he/she has a good view of F1's feet and the Runner(s). He calls this position the C3 Position.

Mark, Jr., and I use it for NFHS, NCAA, ASA, and even for USSSA fast pitch games.

Only once have a I had a partner have a problem with me being in the C3 position and it was in a JV game. The first time I was in the C3 he frantically pointed for me to go move toward 2B. After the half inning was over, he came out and told me that I had to get into correct position. I tried to explain to him why I was in the C3 and he just wouldn't buy it and for the rest of the game would give me a look of disgust whenever I was in the C3.

Mark, Jr., has never been questioned about it in any of his college games and naturally he used it in the two ASA Nationals he umpired last Summer.

MTD, Sr.
I'm curious enough to visualize these, as I probably have bases tomorrow.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2016, 02:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
I'm curious enough to visualize these, as I probably have bases tomorrow.
I drew this up for you all since I was just talking about pre-pitch positioning earlier this week with a partner. Also, I work basically the same mechanics as described, although I've never called them B1/C2/C3. Depth here is dictated by the fielders, assuming they are not insanely deep. When the infield plays in, I will come as close as 2 steps from the 2B-3B baseline in C. The advantages are an instant 90 for a play at 2B, and the ability to get deep in the inside for a play on the BR at 1B. I give up some angle on force outs at 3B, but can easily drop step to regain depth and angle.

Depending on the game situation and likelihood of a pickoff at 3B, I deviate from MTD's suggestion with a runner on 3B only when there are two outs, and move back to C2. The most likely play in the infield is at 1B, and I feel like this gives me the extra step to get closer and more credible. I might also shade that way in a first-and-third situation when I believe it is likely the defense will try to defend the steal at 2B or the offense is likely to do something silly to try to score the run.

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Last edited by teebob21; Mon Mar 21, 2016 at 02:32pm.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2016, 03:00pm
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Excellent visual, TeeBob.

Consider it stolen!
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Old Tue Mar 22, 2016, 11:58am
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I believe that that the starting positions that are detailed in the various umpire manuals that are based on the the positions of the fielders assume that the second baseman and shortstop are playing in a "normal" position. In my experience, this is becoming less and less common.

I have been advocating selecting a spot somewhere between half and two-thirds of the way to the next base as a starting position, then adjusting from there as necessary. For me, personally, I have found that this gives me plenty of time to react to a steal and get to a good position to rule on the play. I'm also able to take a couple of strides to get a decent angle on a pick off play, with the exception of the pick off at first from the C position in two umpire mechanics.
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Old Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I believe that that the starting positions that are detailed in the various umpire manuals that are based on the the positions of the fielders assume that the second baseman and shortstop are playing in a "normal" position. In my experience, this is becoming less and less common.

I have been advocating selecting a spot somewhere between half and two-thirds of the way to the next base as a starting position, then adjusting from there as necessary. For me, personally, I have found that this gives me plenty of time to react to a steal and get to a good position to rule on the play. I'm also able to take a couple of strides to get a decent angle on a pick off play, with the exception of the pick off at first from the C position in two umpire mechanics.
And I have been pushing half way between bases, 10-12 feet back from baseline; then adjust to be out of the way.
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Old Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 View Post
I drew this up for you all since I was just talking about pre-pitch positioning earlier this week with a partner. Also, I work basically the same mechanics as described, although I've never called them B1/C2/C3. Depth here is dictated by the fielders, assuming they are not insanely deep. When the infield plays in, I will come as close as 2 steps from the 2B-3B baseline in C. The advantages are an instant 90 for a play at 2B, and the ability to get deep in the inside for a play on the BR at 1B. I give up some angle on force outs at 3B, but can easily drop step to regain depth and angle.

Depending on the game situation and likelihood of a pickoff at 3B, I deviate from MTD's suggestion with a runner on 3B only when there are two outs, and move back to C2. The most likely play in the infield is at 1B, and I feel like this gives me the extra step to get closer and more credible. I might also shade that way in a first-and-third situation when I believe it is likely the defense will try to defend the steal at 2B or the offense is likely to do something silly to try to score the run.

Great illustration. I was thinking more of how everything looks to me in those positions. As I said, today's game.
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Old Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Great illustration. I was thinking more of how everything looks to me in those positions. As I said, today's game.
I did some of this alternately with fielders' shoulders. Better when fielder off to side. Still prefer the "line" through the pitching plate, rather than tangent to the circle.
The C2 did allow a better view of the pitcher being outside the 24".
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