Brouhaha - LL softball

[Insane Blue]

I think everyone needs to separate the MANSHIP!!!

Was it poor sportsMANSHIP to lose on purpose???

I think not because you have the other MANSHIP gamesMANSHIP To win a war sometimes you have to lose a battle. They wanted to win the whole thing.

The coach played the 9 girls he wanted to play in that game. Yes he sat a few starters but we see that at every level of play when a game does not matter.

So he had them bunt when at bat, He did not have them striking out to get out by just swing at bad pitches.
Lets look some football teams in HS and College that never punt going for it on every 4th down or onside kicking every free kick.

From what I heard they played with good Sportsmanship and had a coach who new his gamesMANSHIP and used it to his favor.

Just my 10 cents worth

[Rich]

Let's not forget the Golden Rule.

"He who has the gold makes the rules."

Little League has written its guidelines so that they can do pretty much whatever they want.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

I think everyone needs to separate the MANSHIP!!!

Was it poor sportsMANSHIP to lose on purpose???

I think not because you have the other MANSHIP gamesMANSHIP To win a war sometimes you have to lose a battle. They wanted to win the whole thing.

The coach played the 9 girls he wanted to play in that game. Yes he sat a few starters but we see that at every level of play when a game does not matter.

So he had them bunt when at bat, He did not have them striking out to get out by just swing at bad pitches.
Lets look some football teams in HS and College that never punt going for it on every 4th down or onside kicking every free kick.

From what I heard they played with good Sportsmanship and had a coach who new his gamesMANSHIP and used it to his favor.

Just my 10 cents worth

If the reports are accurate, what he did was not gamesmanship in the context of LL tournament rules.

It is specifically against the rules to intentionally lose in order to cause a certain outcome in the pool play format. It is interesting that you point out that he did not have them intentionally striking out, while reports are he had his players bunt with two strikes, he had his players leave base early, etc. Clearly, those actions are more than using unskilled players (which he also did, and which is legal).

AFAIK, none of what he did would be illegal in any ASA tournament, but it was illegal in LL.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If the reports are accurate, what he did was not gamesmanship in the context of LL tournament rules.

It is specifically against the rules to intentionally lose in order to cause a certain outcome in the pool play format. It is interesting that you point out that he did not have them intentionally striking out, while reports are he had his players bunt with two strikes, he had his players leave base early, etc. Clearly, those actions are more than using unskilled players (which he also did, and which is legal).

AFAIK, none of what he did would be illegal in any ASA tournament, but it was illegal in LL.

Defensively they threw a no hitter the main thing they did was just try and bunt every pitch. I see coaches some top teams try and bunt with 2 strike not illegal.

As for leaving bases early on purpose I have not heard that.

But he still played the game by the rules set forth to his teams advantage that is all that matters to me.

In todays overly PC world glad to see this.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

...But he still played the game by the rules set forth to his teams advantage that is all that matters to me...

But, according to what I've read (mind you, I'm only going by what has been in the press), he was not playing the game by the rules set forth. Between the lines, yes, there was nothing in the playing rules to make what he did illegal; but it was against the LL tournament rules.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Defensively they threw a no hitter the main thing they did was just try and bunt every pitch.

No... offensively they were no-hit. Defensively they gave up plenty of hits and walks, and 8 runs.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No... offensively they were no-hit. Defensively they gave up plenty of hits and walks, and 8 runs.

I read an article that said they threw a no hitter in that game on some news sight. I just looked at an article from USA Today and sure enough you are correct they where no hit.

[darkside]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If the reports are accurate, what he did was not gamesmanship in the context of LL tournament rules.

It is specifically against the rules to intentionally lose in order to cause a certain outcome in the pool play format. It is interesting that you point out that he did not have them intentionally striking out, while reports are he had his players bunt with two strikes, he had his players leave base early, etc. Clearly, those actions are more than using unskilled players (which he also did, and which is legal).

AFAIK, none of what he did would be illegal in any ASA tournament, but it was illegal in LL.

I talked with the coach and two of the parents. The reports are not correct. He bunted 5 times the whole game. There were only 4K's by WA that game, which was less than any other game they previously played, which means 14 balls were put into play and the SE team made the defensive outs. WA's defense only committed one error in the game.

It was not as the Iowa LL President or coach said it was. They were kept alive by procedural rulings, not by the tournament rules. Since when can a manager whose team is not playing protest a game? Little League failed miserably on that one. Note that the TD who watched the game, refused the protest. However, those in Williamsport, who did not watch the game and relied on testimony, upheld it.