Brouhaha - LL softball

[Dakota]

It is not an umpiring issue, but a lot of us have been around youth sports for many years.

Any comments on the reported actions of the Washington team's coach to tank a game, supposedly to avoid playing the Iowa team again? It was apparently very obvious he was intentionally losing the game.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by dakota

any comments on the reported actions of the washington team's coach to tank a game, supposedly to avoid playing the iowa team again? It was apparently very obvious he was intentionally losing the game.

never ok !

[Andy]

I'm not near as upset as some of my Blue brethren seem to be, especially on the Facebook group.

I don't condone "tanking" a game, but the coach was using the tournament format and tiebreaker rules to his advantage.

What bothers me more is that the Iowa team has a chance to beat the Washington team on the field and didn't get it done. So they cry and whine about the actions of another team and get a second chance to advance in the tournament that no other team got. from what I have read, there is no allowance in the LL rules for a team not involved in a game to protest that game, but LL allowed the protest anyway. Then Iowa wins the "playoff" game.

To me, this is another example of the "we lost, but it wasn't our fault" mentality that is prevalent today.

[MD Longhorn]

LL has stated on previous occasions that tanking games is not acceptable. This is not unprecedented, although it IS at this advanced stage of the tourney. I know of two cases where they did the exact same thing, albeit at a much more local level.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

LL has stated on previous occasions that tanking games is not acceptable. This is not unprecedented, although it IS at this advanced stage of the tourney. I know of two cases where they did the exact same thing, albeit at a much more local level.

Then maybe they should change their format.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Then maybe they should change their format.

Or maybe teams should just play to win the game they're playing.

Washington had clinched a spot. Now someone decided "we can control who we play, too, by losing this one."

And you think that's LL's fault?

[Insane Blue]

I think everyone needs to separate the MANSHIP!!!

Was it poor sportsMANSHIP to lose on purpose???

I think not because you have the other MANSHIP gamesMANSHIP To win a war sometimes you have to lose a battle. They wanted to win the whole thing.

The coach played the 9 girls he wanted to play in that game. Yes he sat a few starters but we see that at every level of play when a game does not matter.

So he had them bunt when at bat, He did not have them striking out to get out by just swing at bad pitches.
Lets look some football teams in HS and College that never punt going for it on every 4th down or onside kicking every free kick.

From what I heard they played with good Sportsmanship and had a coach who new his gamesMANSHIP and used it to his favor.

Just my 10 cents worth

[Rich]

Let's not forget the Golden Rule.

"He who has the gold makes the rules."

Little League has written its guidelines so that they can do pretty much whatever they want.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Rich

Or maybe teams should just play to win the game they're playing.

Washington had clinched a spot. Now someone decided "we can control who we play, too, by losing this one."

And you think that's LL's fault?

Or more likely if they want to keep this format, it'll be lose more convincingly. That's certainly not that difficult is it. Your backup right fielder finally convinces you she wants to pitch and it's not a big game so you say yes?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

I think everyone needs to separate the MANSHIP!!!

Was it poor sportsMANSHIP to lose on purpose???

I think not because you have the other MANSHIP gamesMANSHIP To win a war sometimes you have to lose a battle. They wanted to win the whole thing.

The coach played the 9 girls he wanted to play in that game. Yes he sat a few starters but we see that at every level of play when a game does not matter.

So he had them bunt when at bat, He did not have them striking out to get out by just swing at bad pitches.
Lets look some football teams in HS and College that never punt going for it on every 4th down or onside kicking every free kick.

From what I heard they played with good Sportsmanship and had a coach who new his gamesMANSHIP and used it to his favor.

Just my 10 cents worth

If the reports are accurate, what he did was not gamesmanship in the context of LL tournament rules.

It is specifically against the rules to intentionally lose in order to cause a certain outcome in the pool play format. It is interesting that you point out that he did not have them intentionally striking out, while reports are he had his players bunt with two strikes, he had his players leave base early, etc. Clearly, those actions are more than using unskilled players (which he also did, and which is legal).

AFAIK, none of what he did would be illegal in any ASA tournament, but it was illegal in LL.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

If the reports are accurate, what he did was not gamesmanship in the context of LL tournament rules.

It is specifically against the rules to intentionally lose in order to cause a certain outcome in the pool play format. It is interesting that you point out that he did not have them intentionally striking out, while reports are he had his players bunt with two strikes, he had his players leave base early, etc. Clearly, those actions are more than using unskilled players (which he also did, and which is legal).

AFAIK, none of what he did would be illegal in any ASA tournament, but it was illegal in LL.

Defensively they threw a no hitter the main thing they did was just try and bunt every pitch. I see coaches some top teams try and bunt with 2 strike not illegal.

As for leaving bases early on purpose I have not heard that.

But he still played the game by the rules set forth to his teams advantage that is all that matters to me.

In todays overly PC world glad to see this.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

...But he still played the game by the rules set forth to his teams advantage that is all that matters to me...

But, according to what I've read (mind you, I'm only going by what has been in the press), he was not playing the game by the rules set forth. Between the lines, yes, there was nothing in the playing rules to make what he did illegal; but it was against the LL tournament rules.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich

Or maybe teams should just play to win the game they're playing.

Washington had clinched a spot. Now someone decided "we can control who we play, too, by losing this one."

And you think that's LL's fault?

If they don't want this to happen? Yes.

This is nothing new. I've played in many tournaments where chicken shit tie-breakers caused elimination. If you have teams there playing to win, they are going to do whatever it takes to control their destiny.

Even in JO tournaments, I've seen coaches sitting in a huddle totaling runs for/against trying to figure out if scoring more or less runs would help their seeding, not elimination.

Yeah, I would sit the starters and play the bench, and I may ask the team to not go crazy on production. But I wouldn't tell the to lose the game, just not worry about winning.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

...Yeah, I would sit the starters and play the bench, and I may ask the team to not go crazy on production. But I wouldn't tell the to lose the game, just not worry about winning.

Based on what I've read in the press, that would have been legal in LL. It was the clumsy way the coach went about it that got him.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Defensively they threw a no hitter the main thing they did was just try and bunt every pitch.

No... offensively they were no-hit. Defensively they gave up plenty of hits and walks, and 8 runs.