Direct or Indirect

[refnrev]

I love this one. It always brings up lively debate from people who argue both ways. The keeper, after making a stop, steps out of the box when punting the ball. R whistles the infraction. Which do you award as a restart? Direct or indirect and why? I've actually seen it both ways recently. Let's hear what you have to say.

[Nevadaref]

First merely stepping out of the penalty area is NOT an infraction. In order to infringe the Laws of the Game the GK must extend his arms outside of the plane of the penalty area while the ball is in contact with his hand(s)/arm(s).

In other words, it doesn't matter one bit where the GK's feet are. It only matters where the ball is.

Now if the GK truly does infringe the Laws by carrying the ball out of the penalty area, then the foul is handling. Handling results in a direct free kick for the opponent from the spot of the foul.

I have been told that years ago this offense by a GK resulted in an IFK, but that was long before I was a referee and it is definitely NOT the case today.

[Nevadaref]

BTW, refnrev, there should be no "lively debate" about this. There is only one clearly correct answer. Here is that answer directly from the US soccer federation. http://www.ussoccer.com/referees/refdev/faq.jsp.html From FAQ for New Referees: Q. A goalkeeper runs to the edge of the penalty box to kick the ball. When is a goalkeeper kick considered a hand ball? Is it where the ball is located when in contact with the hand or foot, where the player ends up after the kick or some other consideration? If the penalty relies on the position of the ball, does the ball have to be completely out of the box or in the box?

A. If the goalkeeper's hand and the ball are together, outside the penalty area line, then the goalkeeper has deliberately handled the ball outside the penalty area. Deliberately handling the ball outside the penalty area is an infringement by the goalkeeper that would normally be punished by a direct free kick. However, if the ball is only just over the line when kicked and the goalkeeper is clearly trying to distribute the ball for others to play, this is probably a trivial infringement, one that could be dealt with verbally-"watch your line, 'keeper"-at least on the first occasion.

[ref47]

unless he runs WAY OVER the line with ball in hand, we are playing on as this is trivial. a warning from the ar/cr might be needed. let's get the game moving. if it needs to be called because warnings are not heeded or the distance is too large to ignore - dfk.

[wardtc]

I've had that happen in several game. In fact just this weekend in a U14 B game. It is a handling violation. DFK outside the box

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by ref47

unless he runs WAY OVER the line with ball in hand, we are playing on as this is trivial. a warning from the ar/cr might be needed. let's get the game moving. if it needs to be called because warnings are not heeded or the distance is too large to ignore - dfk.

_______________________________

Trivial? After being warned twice and doing it a 3rd time? I don't think so.

[refnrev]

[QUOTE=Nevadaref]BTW, refnrev, there should be no "lively debate" about this. There is only one clearly correct answer. Here is that answer directly from the US soccer federation.
______________________

Should there be lively debate? Probably not? Is there? Eervy time. Some mistake the penalty for handing in the box with that for handling outside. Some guys swear there was an old rule that called for an indirect years ago and have not made the switch in their minds. Some will be right. Others will be wrong, but there will be a debate.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by refnrev

After being warned twice and doing it a 3rd time?

Where was that information previously written?

[ref47]

exactly my thoughts, nv. in my post i said, if warns went unheeded, etc. which would be the case given the added info.

[refnrev]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Where was that information previously written?

___________________________

It wasn't... but that wasn't what my post was about. It was about the discussions that occur over the knowledge and lack thereof about the direct or indirect. The trivial part came in as a side comment.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by refnrev

It was about the discussions that occur over the knowledge and lack thereof about the direct or indirect.

Yeah, I am constantly amazed by the lack of basic knowledge exhibited by some referees. I am of the opinion that there are certain principles that will allow an official to handle almost all situations which arise correctly.
I might actually take some time and create a written list. I'm convinced that it would be very helpful to make a such handout sheet for new referees (and possibly some not so new referees!).
One could probably memorize this stuff in about 20 minutes.

Okay, here's my first draft:

1. Once the ball has gone out of play determining a certain restart, nothing which happens thereafter can change that restart. (small tweak for PKs)
2. A foul is an unsafe or unfair action that meets three criteria. (1. ball in play, 2. action committed by a player, 3. done against an opponent) If any of these three criteria are absent, then there is no foul. However, it is possible for the action to constitute misconduct.
3. (a) There are only ten fouls which result in a DFK (or a PK). If one of these ten things didn't occur then there cannot be a DFK (or a PK).
(b) DFKs can only be awarded for fouls. If there is no foul, then the game cannot be restarted with a DFK (or a PK).
4. If the game is stopped while the ball is in play for something that occurs OFF the field of play, then the restart will be a drop ball from where the ball was. (OFF the field = drop ball)
5. If the game is stopped while the ball is in play for something done BY A PLAYER (or rostered substitute) ON THE FIELD and a card is given, then the restart must be a free kick. (ON the field, done by a player, and card given = kick)
6. A team CANNOT score against itself directly from any free kick. This includes corner kicks, penalty kicks, goal kicks, and kick-offs.
7. ANY free kick awarded to the defending team inside its own penalty area must leave the penalty area before being touched by another player. If the ball is touched prior to leaving the area, the kick must be retaken. (This applies to ALL free kicks, not just goal kicks!)
8. Any restart which is not taken correctly must be retaken. (small exception for PKs)
9. If the referee stops play for a foul or misconduct and desires to issue a card, he MUST do so during THAT stoppage. Once he allows play to be restarted, it is too late to card anyone. The only time that cards can be delayed is when the advantage clause is invoked. In that case the card MUST be issued during the next stoppage of play.
10. Using the advantage signal (and verbalization of "play on") means that you saw a foul or misconduct, but are allowing the attacking team to continue to anyway. It should NOT be used to indicate that you thought a play was clean or that NO foul occurred on the play. Saying "play on" in those instances is wrong.

What do people think of these ten?

[ref47]

good list. the other thing that lots get confused on is injuries and needing to go off until play is restarted.
stop play to assess injury = player off.
let play stop, then assess injury = let player stay.
call on an attendent (trainer/coach) = player off.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ref47

good list. the other thing that lots get confused on is injuries and needing to go off until play is restarted.
stop play to assess injury = player off.
let play stop, then assess injury = let player stay.
call on an attendent (trainer/coach) = player off.

Nice thought, but I purposely didn't include dealing with injuries because different areas handle this differently at the youth level and there is also an exception for GKs.

For example, the CYSA which governs youth soccer in CA, my neighboring state, permits players to remain on the field even after receiving treatment on the field!

Of course, what you wrote is completely correct at the higher levels of play(with the exception for GKs).

[CTRef]

Originally Posted by refnrev

_______________________________

Trivial? After being warned twice and doing it a 3rd time? I don't think so.

It's hard to tell from the original post if the warnings were justified, since "stepping over the line" is not illegal under the LOTG. It is possible for a GK to be 2 yards over the line when he kicks the ball without violating any rule whatsoever.

In any event, the violation needs to be fairly flagrant before it should be called.