What to look for in a foul

[wardtc]

I've gone through the laws, and some of the many "Advice to refs..." but lets hear your thoughts. What do you look for in a play that makes it a foul in your mind.

1) Let's say it is a hard slide tackle from the front and the defender's momentum after contacting the ball knocks down the attacker (foul or no foul)

2) Two players are chasing down a loose ball. As they approach the ball, one player shoulder bumps (charges) the other, nudges him off course, and collects the ball. (foul or no foul)? What if it's more than a nudge, but a hard shoulder to shoulder (playing the player)? What if the player who got nudged, realizes that he isn't going to get the ball, drops hoping to draw a foul? -What do you look for?

3) Loose ball in the penalty area. Keeper and attacker both are going for the ball. As the keeper reaches out to touch the ball, the attacker kicks it and his follow through [foot] contacts the keeper. (foul or no foul) Does it make a difference if the keeper retains possession after getting kicked?

Let's hear from you!

[Nevadaref]

Ward, these are excellent questions. You are starting to get into the art of refereeing. You are finding that as you climb the ladder not everything is black and white, there is a large amount of gray in the middle. You will form your own ideas about how to best handle these type of plays through repeatedly seeing them, exposure to higher levels of play, and plain old experience on field through working hundreds of matches.

I will do my best to convey my thoughts on these plays. Hopefully, that will help you. Of course, I still believe that the ATR is the best source of info out there and urge you to continue to consult that.

(My thoughts are in red so that I can intersperse them with your questions.)

Originally Posted by wardtc

I've gone through the laws, and some of the many "Advice to refs..." but lets hear your thoughts. What do you look for in a play that makes it a foul in your mind.
I look for a manner of play that is not only unfair or unsafe, but upsets the opponent. If the opponent isn't bothered by it, the offense should most likely be considered trifling and warrants no action by the referee. Esse Baharmast has a training CD from 2003 with video clips from the 2002 WC on the topic of player management. In one section he discusses knowledge of the laws and teaching the game. His point is that we must not only know what is legal and what is illegal, but we must effectively communicate that the to the players during the match so that they will not believe that they are being challenged unfairly and thus get upset. You can tell how much physical contact the players are happy with during the game and they will let you know what is too much by their complaints. Your job is to find a happy medium in which they can display their skills, have a hard fought battle, and also enjoy the contest. The referee must bring balance to the match.

1) Let's say it is a hard slide tackle from the front and the defender's momentum after contacting the ball knocks down the attacker (foul or no foul) Unless the challenge was made with the studs up or in a dangerous manner, I probably do not have a foul on this type of play. It will depend upon the age of the players, the gender, and the ethnicity whether this type of challenge is cool. Most of the time it is.

2) Two players are chasing down a loose ball. As they approach the ball, one player shoulder bumps (charges) the other, nudges him off course, and collects the ball. (foul or no foul)? What if it's more than a nudge, but a hard shoulder to shoulder (playing the player)? What if the player who got nudged, realizes that he isn't going to get the ball, drops hoping to draw a foul? -What do you look for? I do not know how many times I have told people that there is NO RULE which says that the players must "play the ball." THIS IS A TOTAL MYTH and you will hear parents, coaches, and even some referees say it! The truth is that it is perfectly legal to play the player as long as the charge is done fairly. The ATR talks about fair charges in 12.5 and further tells us in 12.22 that also the ball must be within playing distance for the charge to be legal. It does not say that they player making the charge must be going for the ball, just that the ball must be nearby. So playing the ball is truly not the requirement, but rather the requirement is that the ball must be within playing distance at the time of the charge.
After that requirement is met, I look for the contact being mostly shoulder-to-shoulder and not into the back of the opponent, and then make a judgment on the level of force used. We know that it cannot be excessive, but judging that is an art. I allow a great deal more force in a U18 boys match than I would in a U13 girls. I also consider the relative sizes of the players involved. Sometimes a bigger player is going to knock the smaller player down with an acceptable level of force just because of the difference in size. That player should not be penalized just for being bigger. This is another good example of an area in which the referee needs to have a good feel for what is okay in that particular match. The way that you have worded the scenario, I probably would NOT have a foul.

3) Loose ball in the penalty area. Keeper and attacker both are going for the ball. As the keeper reaches out to touch the ball, the attacker kicks it and his follow through [foot] contacts the keeper. (foul or no foul) Does it make a difference if the keeper retains possession after getting kicked?
The GK is a specialized position on a team and most teams have only one quality keeper, two at most. These players have put many hours of training into their trade. When a GK gets injured, it generally puts that team at a severe disadvantage for the remainder of the match as someone who does not have all of this training has to step in and do the task to the best of their ability. Thus there is a understanding that GKs are to be given a bit of extra protection althougth according to the Laws of the Game they are not entitled to anything extra other than that they may not be challenged while the ball is in their possession (with their hands). At the upper levels of play, players will fiercely defend their GKs as they understand the great importance that they are to the team. An intelligent referee will recognize this fact and understand that careless challenges near a GK are going to upset the players. If it is a real scoring opportunity and a true 50-50 ball, then most players are okay with some contact taking place between an attacker and a GK. It just cannot be egregious. I would advise you to look for who initiates the contact--the GK or the field player? Don't penalize the attacker when the GK causes most of the contact. Of course, if it is a situation in which the attacker clearly could have pulled up and not contact the keeper, then whistle it everytime. You want to send a strong message to the players that they are not to hit the GK late, especially watch out for the late bump after the GK has collected the ball or the dragging of the back foot through the GK when jumping over him. Players will do those tactics purposely to intimidate the opponent and discourage the GK from coming out quickly on a ball.
A great management tool for a referee to use is when chastising an attacker who contacted a GK is to tell him that you are going to give that same protection to his GK and that he wouldn't want someone doing that at the other end of the field. This reciprocity argument usually is met with some level of acceptance.
So for your play, I would consider the intensity of the match, the current score, what has transpired earlier, the strength and size of the players, the skill level of the play (ODP, Regional tourney, Premier Invitational, local youth league, etc.), and the scoring opportunity itself--was this a scramble with many players around all kicking at the ball and the GK diving in or was this a 1 v 1 after a through ball or a nice set up by the attacking team?
Lastly, and once again very importantly, did the challenge upset the GK and his teammates or were they cool with it? That right there will tell you a great deal. I'm not saying to always give the players a call just because they cry out for it, but the referee needs to gain the confidence of the players and have them believe that their safety will be protected during the course of the game.

Let's hear from you!

I hope that is helpful to you.

[CecilOne]

Good coverage Nevada, especially providing criteria without eliminating subjectivity.
My similar question would be about dealing keeper-protection complaints whne the keeper initiates the contact or when the keeper is guilty of what would be a DK foul for anyone else.

[Eastshire]

On the keeper protection question, here is an incident from a game last fall. Freshman boys under Fed. The keeper collected a pass that went long with the attacker 5 to 10 yards out. The attacker continued his charge and the keeper brought his knee up in a protective position, and in my opinion the attacker hit himself on the keeper's knee (and injured himself thereby). I received some complaints for not calling a foul on the keeper, but in my opinion the attacker had plenty of oppertunity to pull up.

In fact, I had already spoken to the attacking team for charging at the keeper while he had posession. I would have given a yellow card had he not been injured.

What do you think of how I handled this?

[refnrev]

I've gotta go with you on this one. From what you described you got it right.

[refnrev]

[QUOTE=wardtc]I've gone through the laws, and some of the many "Advice to refs..." but lets hear your thoughts. What do you look for in a play that makes it a foul in your mind.

1) Let's say it is a hard slide tackle from the front and the defender's momentum after contacting the ball knocks down the attacker (foul or no foul) Did he get all ball or not? Did he go in "studs up?" Did he get him from the back?

2) Two players are chasing down a loose ball. As they approach the ball, one player shoulder bumps (charges) the other, nudges him off course, and collects the ball. (foul or no foul)? What if it's more than a nudge, but a hard shoulder to shoulder (playing the player)? What if the player who got nudged, realizes that he isn't going to get the ball, drops hoping to draw a foul? -What do you look for? Was the shoulder to shoulder clean or was it clearly an attempt to bump him out of the way? Was it true shoulder to shoulder or did he extend the arm to clear the opponent out? As for the flop, flops aren't all that hard to spot. HS kids aren't usually that good at it. Warn him first. Card him after that.

3) Loose ball in the penalty area. Keeper and attacker both are going for the ball. As the keeper reaches out to touch the ball, the attacker kicks it and his follow through [foot] contacts the keeper. (foul or no foul) Does it make a difference if the keeper retains possession after getting kicked?
General rule of thumb, protect the keeper. But don't let the keeper get by with cheap stuff -- especially knees in an aggressive and not protective fashion. Don't equate incidental contact with a clear reckless charge.
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Hope this helps -- even if it isn't in red like Nevada's.
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[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by refnrev

Your answer to #1 isn't very helpful because you likey misread what I put in pink and green. Perhaps you could take another shot at it and share your thoughts with us. The defender is coming from the front of the attacker and hits the ball, then the attacker. As we know from the ATR, merely contacting the ball first doesn't absolve the defender of a foul, but at the same time this action isn't a mandatory foul per the Laws like the converse situation in which the defender makes contact with the attacker first and then hits the ball second.

I really would like to know what you find wrong with what I put in red in #2.
I hope you don't say that he isn't playing the ball.

Your answer to #3 is excellent advice.

Originally Posted by refnrev

Hope this helps -- even if it isn't in red like Nevada's.
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Now that's funny!

[refnrev]

I didn't say anything was wrong with your answers. I just said my comments weren't in red.

[Nevadaref]

I meant the clip that I highlighted in your response. You wrote, "...or was it clearly an attempt to bump him out of the way?" Your usage seems to indicate that you think that there is something wrong with that. I was wondering what specifically that is.

[refnrev]

Nevada,
The key wording is bump... was it a clean bump or was he just clearing the player out of the way. Was it really shoulder to shoulder or was it a swim move? Was it a retaliation for getting beat on a previous play? Was the contact hard enough to be violent conduct? Was it a challenge or just a "take down?" Or if there are girls was it shoulder to shoulder or did she do that unique "chick thing" and put a hip into her which is not a legal move.

The OP asked for things to look for. I mentioned a few. I was neither questioning nor seeking to negate anything you said. I just mentioned, as a humorous side, that my reply was blue and yours was red.