Overruling your partner?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by tomegun

No, I'm absolutely serious. It doesn't matter who says it doesn't turn out that way. ..... I make mistakes on the court all the time and will continue to do so. I can recognize quickly the difference between a partner who helps me out and a partner who is looking in my area all game. If you can't see how saying "just get it right" would allow someone to feel more comfortable watching the ball maybe you haven't worked enough games or uh maybe you are watching the ball!

Tom you're reducing the world to a binary system, and it doesn't work. There are more possibilities in the world than just 1) it always happens this way, OR b) it always happens that way.

As someone who is old enough to be your mother, I'd like to give you a little motherly advice. As I hope you would with your own mother, you can accept any or all of the advice. Here goes:

There are always lots and lots and lots of other possibilities, than just a or b. Part of what "creative geniuses" do in life is find some of the other possibilities that most of us are too small-minded to see. Really, Bill Gates' entire fortune is based on that, even though it may appear as though binary is the foundation for him. Life is just never as simple as yes- or-no.

Here's a little personal hint -- you'll be a lot happier in general when you can accept this fact, and work it into your daily life. For one thing, it makes friendships, work relationships and romances a lot more interesting!

[tomegun]

Rainmaker, how do you know you are old enough to be my mother? You tell me how old you are and I will tell you if you are old enough. It is unfortunate that you assume, from some discussions about basketball, that I need to apply your motherly advice to my life. I'm open-minded enough that your statement alone made me start to think about some of those possibilities enough that I got dizzy I will have to call my wife now!

I understand everything you said but well written words of advice do not make what you say true. The same can be said for what I posted. However, I do have the experience (in different parts of the country which is turning into a positive thing) in games, camps and clinics to say that in Phoenix, Mississippi, Las Vegas, California (limited) and the east coast "just get it right" is not needed. Getting it right is assumed and in the places I've mentioned, which your area spills into during summer camps, saying that gives refs a reason to look all over the court. I guess the other possiblity would be a ref watches the ball sometimes. Everything doesn't have 100 possibilities and this might be one of those things. Have I been guilty of watching the ball? Certainly. Have you? So the question is does that statement give license to watch the ball. I think, to an extent beyond dual coverage, that it does. I also think this isn't a good thing since ball watching is already in the game too much. I guess you think it doesn't or it has no effect on a ref watching the ball or not. That is cool. We can agree to disagree. I hope we aren't debating whether watching the ball is OK or not.



[Edited by tomegun on Aug 12th, 2004 at 10:23 AM]

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker


Motherly advice.

Sniff sniff..that was beautiful...

But I can't let something you said pass without comment. The one one thing Bill Gates did NOT use to amass his fortune was creative genius. Closer to the truth to say Gates made the 19th century banker/railroad robber barons look like Mother Teresa.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
The one one thing Bill Gates did NOT use to amass his fortune was creative genius. Closer to the truth to say Gates made the 19th century banker/railroad robber barons look like Mother Teresa.

Lemme guess. When you were a kid, you had poster of Steve Jobs hanging in your room?

[WindyCityBlue]

Apparently name calling is a problem here.

I thought that as officials we would be a little thicker skinned when someone was clever and derisive.

If you read my original post, I meant no disrespect to any of my cage brethren. In fact, I offered kudos for doing a tough juob very well. Go back and read it.

However, a few of you feel the need to dismiss me as "only a baseball guy". That seems a little unfair. I don't pretend to know your sport, I'm just a fan. I did not critique a technique or rule interp. I simply offered a counterpoint to the thread starter's attempt to drag an issue onto this board after it had been closed on the baseball site. I was alerted to his thread and waited to see what the responses bore out. A couple of members seemed to agree with the methodology and immediately they were dismissed and names were called. That sounds a little hypocritical. Maybe that's why Brad let it go...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Apparently name calling is a problem here.

I thought that as officials we would be a little thicker skinned when someone was clever and derisive.

If you read my original post, I meant no disrespect to any of my cage brethren. In fact, I offered kudos for doing a tough juob very well. Go back and read it.

However, a few of you feel the need to dismiss me as "only a baseball guy". That seems a little unfair. I don't pretend to know your sport, I'm just a fan. I did not critique a technique or rule interp. I simply offered a counterpoint to the thread starter's attempt to drag an issue onto this board after it had been closed on the baseball site. I was alerted to his thread and waited to see what the responses bore out. A couple of members seemed to agree with the methodology and immediately they were dismissed and names were called. That sounds a little hypocritical. Maybe that's why Brad let it go...

Name calling?

Here's a name I bet you've been called a few times:

Holier-than-thou.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Apparently name calling is a problem here.

Only since you showed up, Windy.Name calling seems to be a problem on the baseball forum today too, doesn't it?

WindyCityBlue- "Rut and Jurassic have involved me in their moronic attempt to debate..."

Here's the link, Windy:
http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...5&pagenumber=3

"Moronic", Windy?

Lah,me!

PS- Sorry, Oz.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Aug 12th, 2004 at 03:16 PM]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by tomegun
I understand everything you said but well written words of advice do not make what you say true. The same can be said for what I posted.

Yea, okay, whatever...

[WindyCityBlue]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Only since you showed up, Windy.Name calling seems to be a problem on the baseball forum today too, doesn't it?

WindyCityBlue- "Rut and Jurassic have involved me in their moronic attempt to debate..."

Here's the link, Windy:
http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...5&pagenumber=3

"Moronic", Windy?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Aug 12th, 2004 at 03:16 PM]

"Moronic" is an adjective describing the subject "attempt".
If you consider that name calling, then you should really get out of officiating! Is it okay to call an official "overweight", "nearsighted", "horrific"? (all descriptive adjectives that have negative connotations) This is the best you can do?

By the way, that wasn't a very complicated post, why would you need to edit it? The grammar complexities, maybe???

[OverAndBack]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I thought that as officials we would be a little thicker skinned when someone was clever and derisive.

Still waiting for "clever."

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Really, Bill Gates' entire fortune is based on that, even though it may appear as though binary is the foundation for him.

Bill Gates pirated an OS that later became MS-DOS.

Hmm....

It's kinda like a Business School here in Ontario, naemd after a very successful businessman that donated money to build it. Last I heard, he was indicted for money-laundering. Isn't it ironic? Don't ya think?

[WindyCityBlue]

Originally posted by OverAndBack

Still waiting for "clever."

You'd better stop reading this board then...there's nothing but hypocritical basketball guys here. You might want to check out the baseball board, be careful though it contains a great deal of multi syllable words. If you need help, just raise your hand and wait...

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
However, a few of you feel the need to dismiss me as "only a baseball guy". That seems a little unfair. I don't pretend to know your sport, I'm just a fan.

You were all over JR when you spoke out of line when he commented on your comments about what basketball officials can and cannot do. That was you big claim to him. Now you want to cry foul?

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I did not critique a technique or rule interp. I simply offered a counterpoint to the thread starter's attempt to drag an issue onto this board after it had been closed on the baseball site.

I did not drag any issue into this discussion. I left names and places out of it. I asked a question because you seemed to be afraid to do so, after you have used football and basketball examples to support your point of view. I did not use your name or anyone, just pointed out that this was discussed at a previous place. You claim to be a big time official, so I wanted to see if others with a lot of experience agreed with you. No reason to get offended by that. I have asked many questions over the years based on conversations I have had with fellow officials. This is not exception.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I was alerted to his thread and waited to see what the responses bore out. A couple of members seemed to agree with the methodology and immediately they were dismissed and names were called. That sounds a little hypocritical. Maybe that's why Brad let it go...

No one is saying that folks would not have a difference of opinions. I cannot think of a single issue where "everyone" agrees and goes along with whatever point of view that is discussed. But the vast majority (who I know their experience level and where they are located) took issue with your point of view on this topic. I did not ask this question just on the basketball board, I also asked the question on the football board as well. People constantly used the words "never" and "you should not do that," in many of the posts. You have admitted you do not work basketball, but you keep talking about what you saw. You have given no rule, you have not referenced any conversations with D1 Officials (I know a few btw) in those sports, you did not talk to any HS Clinicians or people with our area to confirm your point of view. All you have been suggesting is that you have more knowledge than others because you work D1 Baseball. I would respect you more if you could at the very least admit that you are wrong about the other sports. But that will not happen and my respect for you will stay the same. I did not have it before this conversation; I will continue to feel the same way after this conversation is over.

Peace

[OverAndBack]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
You might want to check out the baseball board, be careful though it contains a great deal of multi syllable words. If you need help, just raise your hand and wait...

This made me laugh. Thanks.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue

You'd better stop reading this board then...there's nothing but hypocritical basketball guys here.

You're here...hmmm... :shrug: