Penalty enforcement

[pafallref]

I have a situation I need help with, NFHS rules.

Case: A 1/10 from the B-30. A-1 takes the snap and rolls out to pass. During his roll out, and B lineman facemasks an A lineman. A-1 then completes a pass to A-88 at the B-10 who runs the ball in for a TD.

I contend that A has to decline the B penalty since it did not occur on the scoring play, but occurred on the loose ball play that preceded the running play which actually scored.

Thoughts?

[Warrenkicker]

Rule 8-2-2 states that if during a touchdown scoring play a foul by the opponents of the scoring team occurs that the scoring team may accept the touchdown and have the penalty enforced on the try. So they are moving the spot of the enforcement from end of the related run to the next play.

If the same thing happened but the play ended at B5 then I would penalize from B5 half the distance.

[pafallref]

My contention is that there is a difference between a "play" and a "down". In my original example, the "play" was foul free (running play), although the "down" (loose ball then running play) was not.

[James Neil]

Originally posted by pafallref
I have a situation I need help with, NFHS rules.

Case: A 1/10 from the B-30. A-1 takes the snap and rolls out to pass. During his roll out, and B lineman facemasks an A lineman. A-1 then completes a pass to A-88 at the B-10 who runs the ball in for a TD.

I contend that A has to decline the B penalty since it did not occur on the scoring play, but occurred on the loose ball play that preceded the running play which actually scored.

Thoughts?

Sorry my brother in strips but you contends wrong . Now if this were last year your contention would be right, but for the wrong reason.
Look in the new NFHS rulebook under 8-2-2. It says ..."If during a touchdown-scoring play, a foul by the opponents of the scoring team occurs, the scoring team may accept the results of the play and have the penalty enforced from the succeeding spot".
What I think you are doing here is confusing the "scoring play" witch encompasses the whole play with the loose ball play and running play that happened during the entire play. Did I say that right? LOL

[James Neil]

Originally posted by Warrenkicker
Rule 8-2-2 states that if during a touchdown scoring play a foul by the opponents of the scoring team occurs that the scoring team may accept the touchdown and have the penalty enforced on the try. So they are moving the spot of the enforcement from end of the related run to the next play.

If the same thing happened but the play ended at B5 then I would penalize from B5 half the distance.

I'm not so sure I would . The foul occured during a loose ball play . If accepted I would enforce from the PS . If the foul had occured during the running play then go from the end of the related run

[pafallref]

Someone has to convince me that in my example, the "touchdown scoring play" is only one event as opposed to two. I think that the words "down" and "play" are getting interchanged when in fact they have different meanings in the rulebook.

If B intercepted with clean hands and ran for a TD and A had fouled prior to the interception, would you enforce on the succeeding spot?

I thought the philosophy of this rule was to eliminate cheap shots on scoring plays.

[Edited by pafallref on Sep 8th, 2003 at 08:32 PM]

[pafallref]

James, you are breaking up the plays if the ball becomes dead on the B-5, but lumping them together if A scores.

Am I misunderstanding?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by pafallref
I have a situation I need help with, NFHS rules.

Case: A 1/10 from the B-30. A-1 takes the snap and rolls out to pass. During his roll out, and B lineman facemasks an A lineman. A-1 then completes a pass to A-88 at the B-10 who runs the ball in for a TD.

I contend that A has to decline the B penalty since it did not occur on the scoring play, but occurred on the loose ball play that preceded the running play which actually scored.

Thoughts?

For those reading OF.com from Canada, or interested in the Canadian amateur ruling:

15y UR foul on B. Apply 1/2 distance on the convert, or 15y on the KO.

Mike

[James Neil]

Originally posted by pafallref
James, you are breaking up the plays if the ball becomes dead on the B-5, but lumping them together if A scores.

Am I misunderstanding?

Guys, when a live ball foul occurs during a down don’t go confusing the type of play with the offensive play that took place during the down. A down may consist of a loose ball play only, a series of one or more running plays, or a loose ball play followed by one or more running plays. So first you need to determine what type of play was in progress when the foul occurred. . If the foul occurred during the loose ball play part of the play, you enforce from the previous spot. If it occurs after the loose ball play has ended then enforce from the end of the related run in which the foul occurred.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally posted by pafallref
I have a situation I need help with, NFHS rules.

Case: A 1/10 from the B-30. A-1 takes the snap and rolls out to pass. During his roll out, and B lineman facemasks an A lineman. A-1 then completes a pass to A-88 at the B-10 who runs the ball in for a TD.

I contend that A has to decline the B penalty since it did not occur on the scoring play, but occurred on the loose ball play that preceded the running play which actually scored.

Thoughts?

This is a loose ball play (2-31-1d) with the runs preceding it.

And according to revised rule 8-2-2 the penalty will be enforced from the succeeding spot. Last season if somehow A accepted the penalty -- future referees don't even give them the choice of accpeting the penalty -- it would be enforced from the previous spot since it was a loose ball play.