Dez Bryant Catch

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I uinderstand both NFL and NCAA have adopted "survive the ground" type interpretations, but under the NFHS code, has there been any such official instruction? Reading 2-4-1 "A catch is the act of establishing player possession of a live ball which is in flight, and first contacting the ground inbounds while maintaining possession....."

If possession is maintained while "first contacting the ground", why would losing possession while subsequently rolling along the ground matter, at least as far as the "catch" being completed?

The NF has not said anything honestly about this and I do not care what they say about this. I do not officiate for the NF. What I do is a philosophy to be consistent in situations. It makes the rulings simple and easy to make a call in high speed. I do not call holding based on the NF wording alone either. Never seen anything about POA or advantage/disadvantage, but that is what is widely applied where I live.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The NF has not said anything honestly about this and I do not care what they say about this. I do not officiate for the NF. What I do is a philosophy to be consistent in situations. It makes the rulings simple and easy to make a call in high speed. I do not call holding based on the NF wording alone either. Never seen anything about POA or advantage/disadvantage, but that is what is widely applied where I live.

Peace

I understand completely, and it's much the same situation where I live. Actually, I was hoping that maybe someone has seen some sort of instruction/guidance to help clarify this situation, and I just missed it.

The list of things that would benefit from a little NFHS clarification, never seems to change or get any shorter.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

I understand completely, and it's much the same situation where I live. Actually, I was hoping that maybe someone has seen some sort of instruction/guidance to help clarify this situation, and I just missed it.

The list of things that would benefit from a little NFHS clarification, never seems to change or get any shorter.

If the NF wants things to be done there way, they need to produce videos, trainings with videos like that is used at the NCAA or NFL levels all the time that make their philosophies clear. The NF just thinks a PowerPoint and a couple of videos of targeting is sufficient. But they never address illegal blocks, holding, catches, fumbles or even dead ball fouls. Those would help in bringing consistency. All those things are left to local areas to decide what is acceptable. And for me I use what is taught by the guys at the higher levels.

Peace

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All those things are left to local areas to decide what is acceptable. And for me I use what is taught by the guys at the higher levels. Peace

A lot more responsive guidance would be a definite benefit. However we shouldn't lose sight of the reality that people BELOW the age of 19, are a lot different physically, emotionally and experience wise than adults who WORK in an enormous entertainment venue that has entirely different objectives than "interscholastic" sports.

Collegiate and professional levels of football are undoubtedly played at a higher level, and many of the enhancements developed at, or for, these levels do provide benefit and improvement to the game, but not all.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

A lot more responsive guidance would be a definite benefit. However we shouldn't lose sight of the reality that people BELOW the age of 19, are a lot different physically, emotionally and experience wise than adults who WORK in an enormous entertainment venue that has entirely different objectives than "interscholastic" sports.

Collegiate and professional levels of football are undoubtedly played at a higher level, and many of the enhancements developed at, or for, these levels do provide benefit and improvement to the game, but not all.

I do not think it is too much to ask players to do basic things. I also do not think if we do what many suggest, we will have very debatable situations where fumbles ruled because we use another arbitrary line of things like "how many feet touch" when the player displays no control or likelihood for control. Sorry, that to me is not good for the officials either. It is not IMO bad to require a player to show complete control. With the texture of the gloves, they can do that if they really control the ball.

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think it is too much to ask players to do basic things. I also do not think if we do what many suggest, we will have very debatable situations where fumbles ruled because we use another arbitrary line of things like "how many feet touch" when the player displays no control or likelihood for control. Sorry, that to me is not good for the officials either. It is not IMO bad to require a player to show complete control. With the texture of the gloves, they can do that if they really control the ball.

Peace

I agree. I get frustrated when I see a bang-bang hit after a catch and the crew rules catch/fumble because the receiver had one foot touching the ground when he possessed the ball. It's a cheap turnover. It may not be an officially endorsed philosophy by the NFHS, but I know a lot of officials who use philosophies similar to NCAA and NFL on catch/no catch. It makes it so much more consistent.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think it is too much to ask players to do basic things. I also do not think if we do what many suggest, we will have very debatable situations where fumbles ruled because we use another arbitrary line of things like "how many feet touch" when the player displays no control or likelihood for control. Sorry, that to me is not good for the officials either. It is not IMO bad to require a player to show complete control. With the texture of the gloves, they can do that if they really control the ball.

Peace

Then you need to sit on, if not Chair, the NFHS Rule Revision Committee,or effort. There are differences between teenagers and the upper most level of skilled adult professional athletes. Until you get to where your personal assessments should apply to everyone, perhaps you might consider what HS officials have done for the past 100, or so, years and enforce the rules of the game as written by those empowered to do so.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Then you need to sit on, if not Chair, the NFHS Rule Revision Committee,or effort. There are differences between teenagers and the upper most level of skilled adult professional athletes. Until you get to where your personal assessments should apply to everyone, perhaps you might consider what HS officials have done for the past 100, or so, years and enforce the rules of the game as written by those empowered to do so.

Perhaps you missed where he said, "I do not officiate for the NF." He doesn't need to enforce the rules of the HS game ... he's not working them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Then you need to sit on, if not Chair, the NFHS Rule Revision Committee,or effort. There are differences between teenagers and the upper most level of skilled adult professional athletes. Until you get to where your personal assessments should apply to everyone, perhaps you might consider what HS officials have done for the past 100, or so, years and enforce the rules of the game as written by those empowered to do so.

When you call holding by not using a philosophy let me know (I have called it that way practically my entire career.) Then tell me how many games you are working as a result. Because if I call it only the way the NF says by the absence of language of POA and advantage/disadvantage, then I would still be working Pop Warner or Bill George ball. For the record, I do most things with the exact same philosophy for holding that I call or use at the NCAA or college level and that the NFL basically teaches as I do for catching a football. And if the state that I live in did not like such philosophies, they would have said something to me or my crew in my last State Final game when I called an incomplete pass for a player not surviving the ground and a hit (I posted that here BTW). I did not hear a single word from anyone telling me to do anything different. Now that was 4 years ago, so I guess that does not apply to those 100 years you are referencing.

Peace