lateral

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

What's the yard line where the runner is positioned?

Would you prefer, "where the runner is "standing", "stationed", "occupying", "present" or some other word denoting his position ?

[bisonlj]

The most common time you'll see a forward handoff is when a team runs a reverse on a kick return. If the guy receiving the handoff runs on the wrong side of the guy with the ball, he could hand it forward. This is a foul. I saw it for the first time in an all-star middle school tournament in December. Flagged it. Got the signal and enforcement right. Guessed on both since I couldn't remember.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Would you prefer, "where the runner is "standing", "stationed", "occupying", "present" or some other word denoting his position ?

The runner has a body of many parts, and hence spans a distance between the end lines.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

The runner has a body of many parts, and hence spans a distance between the end lines.

C'mon Robert, for 100+ years, most officials have had little, if any, problem deducing whether a handoff was forward, or backwards, using the current rule description. Once again, this doesn't seem like a situation that is at all broken.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

C'mon Robert, for 100+ years, most officials have had little, if any, problem deducing whether a handoff was forward, or backwards, using the current rule description. Once again, this doesn't seem like a situation that is at all broken.

That's not true, because the definition given by Fed (and similarly by NCAA) is a recent creation, nothing like 100 yrs. old (which is why I bolded your passage above). NCAA's interpret'n AR 7-1-6 even contradicts it because it's from a time before the current definition. NFL's definition differs from both of them.

Until recently, Fed didn't even have a definition for this, and NCAA in 7-1 referenced the relative positions of the players giving & getting the ball. If there wasn't a problem, why fix it? The former situation, while not ideal, was better than the current wording, which muddies the water.

Fed could clarify by specifying a body part as landmark. For instance, they could say the foremost point of the body exclusive of the upper extremities, so then it's all about where the hands & arms are in relationship to the rest of the body when the ball's released.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Fed could clarify by specifying a body part as landmark. For instance, they could say the foremost point of the body exclusive of the upper extremities, so then it's all about where the hands & arms are in relationship to the rest of the body when the ball's released.

Sorry Robert, Shakespeare nailed it with, "much ado about nothing". As for, "the foremost point of the body exclusive of the upper extremities", we are talking about a moving body, in the midst of a crowd of other moving bodies, on a wide open field.

leaving, "where the runner is positioned", which hasn't appeared to cause much serious concern for over....a long time, seems a lot more useful.

[HLin NC]

Don't feed the trolls.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Sorry Robert, Shakespeare nailed it with, "much ado about nothing". As for, "the foremost point of the body exclusive of the upper extremities", we are talking about a moving body, in the midst of a crowd of other moving bodies, on a wide open field.

leaving, "where the runner is positioned", which hasn't appeared to cause much serious concern for over....a long time, seems a lot more useful

I can't nail down exactly when that wording was put in, but it was around the turn of the century. Not that long a time. So why'd they do it?

if seeing a moving body in a crowd is so hard, surely the same applies to seeing the foremost part of the ball and many other things in the game. But if it adds too much to the burden, I'd be almost as satisfied for them simply to delete the recent definition, and go back to an intuitive understanding of "forward". That was what they had for over a century previous, and I don't know of any problems the lack of a definition caused.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

I can't nail down exactly when that wording was put in, but it was around the turn of the century. Not that long a time. So why'd they do it?

if seeing a moving body in a crowd is so hard, surely the same applies to seeing the foremost part of the ball and many other things in the game. But if it adds too much to the burden, I'd be almost as satisfied for them simply to delete the recent definition, and go back to an intuitive understanding of "forward". That was what they had for over a century previous, and I don't know of any problems the lack of a definition caused.

Forgive me Robert, but "forward" referencing, "when the entire ball is BEYOND the yard line...." as opposed to "backwards" referencing, " when any part of the ball is on or BEHIND the yard line...., seems pretty clear, which may contribute to the lack of necessity to enforce violations.