lateral

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

In Canadian amateur, we do not care about the initial direction as it leaves the passer's hand. If the pass leaves going forward, but wind blows it backwards, and it then hits the ground, it is a backwards pass.

Yes, that's Fed's problem. I've no idea why Fed wants to make it that the only way to rule correctly on the direction of a pass in a close case would be for an official to be on the same yard line as the ball at release. They also have a provision defining handing the ball forward which can't possibly mean what it literally says.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Yes, that's Fed's problem. I've no idea why Fed wants to make it that the only way to rule correctly on the direction of a pass in a close case would be for an official to be on the same yard line as the ball at release. They also have a provision defining handing the ball forward which can't possibly mean what it literally says.

What parts of NFHS 2-19-2: "forward handing occurs when the runner releases the ball when the entire ball is beyond the yard line where the runner is positioned." or,

NFHS 2-19-3: "Backwards handing occurs when the runner releases the ball when any part of the ball is on or behind the yard line where the runner is positioned." are creating problems with your determining, "what it literally says"?

Granted, determining a violation of the "Handing" rule NFHS 7-3-2 does require precise positioning and detailed observation by the calling official, but those seem entirely appropriate considerations for determining such a violation.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

What parts of NFHS 2-19-2: "forward handing occurs when the runner releases the ball when the entire ball is beyond the yard line where the runner is positioned." or,

NFHS 2-19-3: "Backwards handing occurs when the runner releases the ball when any part of the ball is on or behind the yard line where the runner is positioned." are creating problems with your determining, "what it literally says"?

Granted, determining a violation of the "Handing" rule NFHS 7-3-2 does require precise positioning and detailed observation by the calling official, but those seem entirely appropriate considerations for determining such a violation.

What's the yard line where the runner is positioned?

[HLin NC]

I am neither Canadian nor a professional.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

What's the yard line where the runner is positioned?

Would you prefer, "where the runner is "standing", "stationed", "occupying", "present" or some other word denoting his position ?

[bisonlj]

The most common time you'll see a forward handoff is when a team runs a reverse on a kick return. If the guy receiving the handoff runs on the wrong side of the guy with the ball, he could hand it forward. This is a foul. I saw it for the first time in an all-star middle school tournament in December. Flagged it. Got the signal and enforcement right. Guessed on both since I couldn't remember.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Would you prefer, "where the runner is "standing", "stationed", "occupying", "present" or some other word denoting his position ?

The runner has a body of many parts, and hence spans a distance between the end lines.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

The runner has a body of many parts, and hence spans a distance between the end lines.

C'mon Robert, for 100+ years, most officials have had little, if any, problem deducing whether a handoff was forward, or backwards, using the current rule description. Once again, this doesn't seem like a situation that is at all broken.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by ajmc

C'mon Robert, for 100+ years, most officials have had little, if any, problem deducing whether a handoff was forward, or backwards, using the current rule description. Once again, this doesn't seem like a situation that is at all broken.

That's not true, because the definition given by Fed (and similarly by NCAA) is a recent creation, nothing like 100 yrs. old (which is why I bolded your passage above). NCAA's interpret'n AR 7-1-6 even contradicts it because it's from a time before the current definition. NFL's definition differs from both of them.

Until recently, Fed didn't even have a definition for this, and NCAA in 7-1 referenced the relative positions of the players giving & getting the ball. If there wasn't a problem, why fix it? The former situation, while not ideal, was better than the current wording, which muddies the water.

Fed could clarify by specifying a body part as landmark. For instance, they could say the foremost point of the body exclusive of the upper extremities, so then it's all about where the hands & arms are in relationship to the rest of the body when the ball's released.